Discussion:
Ball Mills, Pyro, Explosives, Tannerite, etc...
(too old to reply)
RogerN
2012-07-25 00:36:24 UTC
Permalink
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?

On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.

This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.

So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?

I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)

RogerN
Ignoramus20786
2012-07-25 00:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.

i
Larry Jaques
2012-07-25 03:24:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:38:17 -0500, Ignoramus20786
Post by Ignoramus20786
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
Isn't this the extremely religious Roger you're talking to here, Ig?
In the world's experience, 'extremely religious types' and
'explosives' don't play well together with the rest of the world.
<shudder>

(Roger, if you're -not- the Jesus Freak I mistook you for, please
accept my apology. I don't want to be like ABC's Brian Ross.)

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
RogerN
2012-07-25 10:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Jaques
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:38:17 -0500, Ignoramus20786
<snip>
Post by Ignoramus20786
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
Isn't this the extremely religious Roger you're talking to here, Ig?
In the world's experience, 'extremely religious types' and
'explosives' don't play well together with the rest of the world.
<shudder>
(Roger, if you're -not- the Jesus Freak I mistook you for, please
accept my apology. I don't want to be like ABC's Brian Ross.)
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
Paraphrase: There was a city that rejected Jesus and his disciples, upon
leaving the city the disciples wanted to pray down fire from Heaven on that
city. Jesus told the disciples that their desire was from the devil, not
from God.

The way to "change the world" is through changing people's hearts, not
blowing up or killing people.

Same for abortion clinics, blowing one up sends customers to another.
Change the heart of the customers and the clinics would have to perform
other health services or go out of business.

Not saying that I don't have fun provoking TMT from time to time though.
:-)

RogerN
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2012-07-25 11:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
Not saying that I don't have fun provoking TMT from time to time though.
:-)
You could do that with a blank sheet of paper. He's clueless.

On the matter of initiating ANFO, "no".

One cannot get reasonable detonation of ANFO or AN/Al mixtures with less
than a #10 cap. Even then, it's not sure enough to rely upon. Small
PETN boosters are usually used for that purpose. They're commercially
available.

Lloyd
RogerN
2012-07-27 03:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve W.
Post by RogerN
Not saying that I don't have fun provoking TMT from time to time
though.
Post by RogerN
:-)
You could do that with a blank sheet of paper. He's clueless.
On the matter of initiating ANFO, "no".
One cannot get reasonable detonation of ANFO or AN/Al mixtures with less
than a #10 cap. Even then, it's not sure enough to rely upon. Small
PETN boosters are usually used for that purpose. They're commercially
available.
Lloyd
Isn't Tannerite AN/AL? There's a youtube video on making Tannerite using AN
from instant cold packs and 5% AL, the guy shot the AN/AL pack and it went
off.

I've seen some exploding targets that are supposed to work with 22 rimfire,
wondering what they use to make it more sensitive.

I read something about you having a book with some info about ball milling.
Still available?

RogerN
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2012-07-27 10:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
Isn't Tannerite AN/AL? There's a youtube video on making Tannerite
using AN from instant cold packs and 5% AL, the guy shot the AN/AL
pack and it went off.
It explodes at a sub-sonic velocity; deflagration rather than detonation.

Explosives work in two general regimes: "Low", or deflagrating
explosives, and "HIGH", or detonating explosives.

In sufficient quantities, some explosives will undergo what's called the
"D-to-D" or deflagration to detonation transition, as evidenced in the
Texas City disaster in 1947, when a cargo ship full of ammonium nitrate
first caught fire, then eventually underwent the D-to-D transition and
leveled much of the city.

Black powder and (when functioning normally) nitrocellulose smokeless
propellants used in firearms function by rapid deflagration. When
(usually double or triple-based) smokeless powder detonates - like in an
under-loaded rifle cartridge - BAD things happen to weapon and shooter.

Tannerite, as intended for use, deflagrates. It can be detonated by a #
10 cap or a small high-explosive booster.

LLoyd
Gunner Asch
2012-07-28 21:14:53 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 05:39:52 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by RogerN
Isn't Tannerite AN/AL? There's a youtube video on making Tannerite
using AN from instant cold packs and 5% AL, the guy shot the AN/AL
pack and it went off.
It explodes at a sub-sonic velocity; deflagration rather than detonation.
Explosives work in two general regimes: "Low", or deflagrating
explosives, and "HIGH", or detonating explosives.
In sufficient quantities, some explosives will undergo what's called the
"D-to-D" or deflagration to detonation transition, as evidenced in the
Texas City disaster in 1947, when a cargo ship full of ammonium nitrate
first caught fire, then eventually underwent the D-to-D transition and
leveled much of the city.
Black powder and (when functioning normally) nitrocellulose smokeless
propellants used in firearms function by rapid deflagration. When
(usually double or triple-based) smokeless powder detonates - like in an
under-loaded rifle cartridge - BAD things happen to weapon and shooter.
Tannerite, as intended for use, deflagrates. It can be detonated by a #
10 cap or a small high-explosive booster.
LLoyd
Or any number of similar brissance "caps" including the easy to make
azides and fuminates.

Ill leave the reader to google the terms and do the research.

Gunner

--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"

She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2012-07-27 10:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
I've seen some exploding targets that are supposed to work with 22
rimfire, wondering what they use to make it more sensitive.
I read something about you having a book with some info about ball
milling. Still available?
Sorry... I didn't answer the rest.

Explosives become more sensitive when chemicals with low decomposition
temperatures are used. Potassium chlorate is the 'classic' example of a
low decomposition temperature oxidizer. That's why it's used in matches.
With a low melting temperature fuel like sulfur, KClO3 will decompose at
the temperatures reached by friction. With phosphorus available in the
mix (on the striker), the temperature is further lowered.

With only phosphorus as the fuel, the temperature goes so low as to allow
ignition by gentle friction, like just throwing the composition down on a
hard surface -- a la the "throw down torpedos" of our youth.

Yes, I have a "book" - more a booklet than a book, only 84 pages, et. al.
It describes how ball mills work, and gives full construction details
with measured drawings on how to build a small "lab" style mill suitable
for amateur pyrotechnic powder production. (it will mill about 5lb of
powder per run in about 3-1/2 hours from raw ingredients).

There's also a lengthy "train of conciousness" section on improvements to
the mill and things like selection of and making of milling media.

It runs about $20 retail from a number of pyrotechnic literature
suppliers like American Fireworks News, Skylighter, and FireFox (all
.coms)

I've also published a couple of shorter articles on aerial shell and pyro
component manufacturing at the amateur level, and a couple of diatribes
on digital firing system use and problems with them.

LLoyd
Ignoramus718
2012-07-25 11:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Jaques
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:38:17 -0500, Ignoramus20786
Post by Ignoramus20786
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
Isn't this the extremely religious Roger you're talking to here, Ig?
In the world's experience, 'extremely religious types' and
'explosives' don't play well together with the rest of the world.
<shudder>
(Roger, if you're -not- the Jesus Freak I mistook you for, please
accept my apology. I don't want to be like ABC's Brian Ross.)
Well, in my experience, religious people cheat on their spouses more,
but I am not so sure if there is any relationship between religion and
explosives.

I always stayed away from explosives, personally, which may explain
why I still have two eyes. I am too much of a chicken.

i
Larry Jaques
2012-07-25 12:46:20 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 06:44:41 -0500, Ignoramus718
Post by Ignoramus718
Post by Larry Jaques
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:38:17 -0500, Ignoramus20786
Post by Ignoramus20786
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
Isn't this the extremely religious Roger you're talking to here, Ig?
In the world's experience, 'extremely religious types' and
'explosives' don't play well together with the rest of the world.
<shudder>
(Roger, if you're -not- the Jesus Freak I mistook you for, please
accept my apology. I don't want to be like ABC's Brian Ross.)
Well, in my experience, religious people cheat on their spouses more,
but I am not so sure if there is any relationship between religion and
explosives.
Gee, you entirely missed the "extremist Muslim/crazy Crusader" angle,
dincha?
Post by Ignoramus718
I always stayed away from explosives, personally, which may explain
why I still have two eyes. I am too much of a chicken.
And I miss shooting off fireworks which were around when I was a kid.
M80s, M120s, real flares called 'Roman candles' and all that. I still
have all my fingers and eyes (Though I wear lasses. I shoulda quit
when I heard the "You'll go blind!" religious admonitions, huh?)

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
Snag
2012-07-25 16:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus718
Post by Larry Jaques
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:38:17 -0500, Ignoramus20786
Post by Ignoramus20786
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from
me for an explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their
qualifications except one, explosives certification. So how could
I get explosives certification on my own, so I could qualify for
the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they
had Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99
each (half pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on
the internet and I see a video of someone making exploding targets
on youtube using instant cold packs with ammonium nitrate and
aluminum powder. So I checked at Wal-Mart and found instant cold
packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium nitrate, $3 for a 2
pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target. So I
loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as
media, should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum
powder in about a week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're
detonating it with a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal
to shoot a rifle, it's legal to have a target go boom. Would
ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the same, detonate with a
rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel around for
the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be
detonated with a firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives
manufacturer pays good enough to interest me, learning about
explosives sounds kind of fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
Isn't this the extremely religious Roger you're talking to here, Ig?
In the world's experience, 'extremely religious types' and
'explosives' don't play well together with the rest of the world.
<shudder>
(Roger, if you're -not- the Jesus Freak I mistook you for, please
accept my apology. I don't want to be like ABC's Brian Ross.)
Well, in my experience, religious people cheat on their spouses more,
but I am not so sure if there is any relationship between religion and
explosives.
I always stayed away from explosives, personally, which may explain
why I still have two eyes. I am too much of a chicken.
i
Just as with machinery , there are safety rules to be followed . As long as
you follow the safety rules , everything will be OK . I worked with several
types of explosives for a few years while at Thiokol Corp.'s Wasatch
Division , and never had a problem - because I followed the safety rules .
Oh , and Lloyd's right , it takes a pretty good knock to get ANFO to
detonate . A stick of gel dynamite , RDX booster tabs , or something
equivalent . Not sure if Primacord will initiate it or not ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !
Gunner Asch
2012-07-28 21:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snag
Just as with machinery , there are safety rules to be followed . As long as
you follow the safety rules , everything will be OK . I worked with several
types of explosives for a few years while at Thiokol Corp.'s Wasatch
Division , and never had a problem - because I followed the safety rules .
Oh , and Lloyd's right , it takes a pretty good knock to get ANFO to
detonate . A stick of gel dynamite , RDX booster tabs , or something
equivalent . Not sure if Primacord will initiate it or not ...
--
Snag
Oh yes..det cord/Primacord will indeed initiate it quite nicely

Gunner, one time Atlas Powder Co. Blaster, powder monkey for several
geophysical companies with a long expired Class B license.

--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"

She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
Gunner Asch
2012-07-28 21:12:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:24:49 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:38:17 -0500, Ignoramus20786
Post by Ignoramus20786
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
Isn't this the extremely religious Roger you're talking to here, Ig?
In the world's experience, 'extremely religious types' and
'explosives' don't play well together with the rest of the world.
<shudder>
Roger is "extremely religious"? On what do you make that statement?
Its not like he is a Muslim or anything. Christians blowing things up
ended about the 17th century. (for religious reasons)
Post by Larry Jaques
(Roger, if you're -not- the Jesus Freak I mistook you for, please
accept my apology. I don't want to be like ABC's Brian Ross.)
You often come off that way.

<G>

Gunner

--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"

She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
RogerN
2012-07-28 01:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ignoramus20786
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
i
You may already have this, but if not:
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdf

I ordered some oxidizer chemicals, potassium chlorate and perchlorate. I
hear the chlorate is very sensitive, hard to mix without detonation in some
substances. My plans are to get out the reloading scale and play with a few
grains at a time, so if something goes wrong it should be a minor incident.
I don't plan on doing anything illegal, it's just as the government takes
away the fun stuff, I'd like to have a little to play with before it's
banned. In a few years the chemistry sets will probably involve putting
food coloring in water to see the effect, maybe have enough chemicals to
make a test tube of tea or something. :-(

When I was young we went to the pharmacy and bought potassium nitrate and
sulphur off the shelf, mixed it with a mortar and pestle, lit, it burned
slowly. We didn't know the right proportions, we mixed roughly equal parts
of potassium nitrate, sulphur, and charcoal. Burned slow but it was still
fun.

RogerN
RogerN
2012-08-20 02:59:01 UTC
Permalink
"Ignoramus20786" wrote in message news:***@giganews.com...

<snip>
Post by Ignoramus20786
Post by RogerN
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
Let us know how this ends up working, I am very curious.
i
I saw an ad for the maintenance tech job at the explosives plant, it's a
little farther away from me a pays less per hour so I'm not very interested.

I have been looking up info on Aluminum powder/ Ammonium Nitrate exploding
targets. So far nothing I have read indicates a rifle bullet could detonate
the explosive. The blasting caps seem to generally have a powerful primary
explosive that sets off a secondary explosive. In general, I didn't see any
mention that a secondary explosive could be detonated by smokeless powder
and a projectile. I understand an explosive like flash powder isn't a
detonation, it just a very fast burn, but if a fast bullet can detonate,
couldn't flash powder (or maybe black powder) propel a projectile at > 2000
fps to detonate? Has secondary explosives been tested with rifle shots? Is
there a list of what can be detonated by a rifle shot? I guess it depends
on the situation but if a soldier found himself with more guns than he
needed or could carry, it seems it might be easier to point a spare rifle at
explosives and rig a trip wire instead of scratch building a blasting cap to
detonate.

The chemistry behind it all seems interesting to me. I find reading about
it interesting but don't want to try to make anything too dangerous. It
seems that creating a chemical that can explode, without exploding it, is
kind of like setting a mouse trap, but in the case of the explosives, the
"trap" going off does more than just snap you in the fingers! Not as
dangerous as explosives, I think it would be fun to make some rocket engines
and perhaps some colored stars to burn in the sky, but I'm sure that
wouldn't be legal here.

Vacuum Distillation. The improvised munitions manual from the Army tells
about making nitric acid from potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid. It's
basically use 2 parts potassium nitrate to 1 part sulfuric acid, and a
distillation process to get nitric acid in the receiving container. I have
read a little about vacuum distillation, what I like about it, or at least
about the setup, is that everything is sealed and has a single tap for the
vacuum pump. This seems that it would be a great way to deal with the
fumes, even without the vacuum pump you could route the fumes through a tube
away from people.

This brings me to a distillation process I saw, they use a small bucket of
mash inside of a larger bucket, the mash is heated by a small immersion
heater, only to about 40-50 deg. C, and the alcohol is collected in the
larger bucket that isn't heated. Expanding on that idea, if a vacuum was
drawn the alcohol would boil at a lower temperature. Seems that if you made
a closed type still, you could pull a vacuum, slightly heat the mash pot and
cool the receiving pot, thought this might make fuel strength alcohol more
efficiently. I'm not interested in going into big time ethanol production
to run my car from it, but I like how chemistry labs produce their chemicals
from what they have on hand. With the proper setup I should be able to make
charcoal for homemade black powder and get wood alcohol (methanol) at the
same time. Or maybe ferment a little sugar water and distilling to make
alcohol for the alcohol lamp, instead of paying $7 per quart at Wal-Mart. I
guess I'd have to get a permit to make ethanol for an alcohol lamp and
science experiments, maybe wood alcohol would better.

RogerN
Jim Wilkins
2012-08-20 11:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
Has secondary explosives been tested with rifle shots?
RogerN
All military bomb fillers are supposed to tolerate hits.

jsw

PrecisionmachinisT
2012-07-25 01:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'd tell you...but for the threat you pose to abortion clinics and so forth.
Steve W.
2012-07-25 02:52:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
ANFO won't detonate with a simple shockwave from a projectile. It is
actually a very stable explosive.

AN/AL will (this is what the "exploding targets" are filled with)

However you can use the AN/AL as the primary detonating charge for the
ANFO.
Post by RogerN
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
AN/AL could be. I wouldn't try magnesium simply due to the difficulties
in making it stable.
Standard flash powder is Aluminum powder and potassium perchlorate. When
properly mixed it is reasonably stable.
It is VERY static sensitive though.
Post by RogerN
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
It can be fun, it can also maim/kill you VERY easily.
Post by RogerN
RogerN
--
Steve W.
John B.
2012-07-25 12:31:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
You are making Ammonal which is sometimes used as a substitute for
TNT.
It has an explosive velocity of about 4,400 meters/second. 60%
dynamite is about 5500 M/s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonal
Cheers,
John B.
Gunner Asch
2012-07-28 21:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B.
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for an
explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications except
one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives certification
on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
On a related topic, I went to a nearby Rural King store and they had
Tannerite exploding targets. They are kind of pricey, $7.99 each (half
pound) or 29.99 for 4. So anyway, a little research on the internet and I
see a video of someone making exploding targets on youtube using instant
cold packs with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. So I checked at
Wal-Mart and found instant cold packs with the ingredients calcium ammonium
nitrate, $3 for a 2 pack, the guy on youtube used both packs for one target.
So I loaded some aluminum foil in my rock tumbler with steel balls as media,
should have a good quantity of German style dark aluminum powder in about a
week.
This stuff isn't supposed to be illegal as long as you're detonating it with
a high powered rifle, I guess where it's legal to shoot a rifle, it's legal
to have a target go boom. Would ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel work the
same, detonate with a rifle shot? Just wondering because I keep some diesel
around for the Kubota tractor/mower, sure would be easier than ball milling
aluminum.
So, just out of curiosity, would the ammonium nitrate combined with
aluminum, magnesium, fuel oil, gasoline, ???? be able to be detonated with a
firecracker or flash powder?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
You are making Ammonal which is sometimes used as a substitute for
TNT.
It has an explosive velocity of about 4,400 meters/second. 60%
dynamite is about 5500 M/s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonal
Cheers,
John B.
Close enough.

Im assuming the gent does follow the warnings/safety practices and so
forth.

I hope he is. While fun..it can indeed kill..or worse.......maim


--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"

She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
Paul K. Dickman
2012-07-25 14:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
There is a maintenance technician job opening not to far away from me for
an explosives manufacturer. I meet or exceed all their qualifications
except one, explosives certification. So how could I get explosives
certification on my own, so I could qualify for the job?
I'm not sure if the maintenance tech job for the explosives manufacturer
pays good enough to interest me, learning about explosives sounds kind of
fun though, big firecrackers! :-)
RogerN
The Certs in Illinois are done by the DNR Mining and Minerals. It involves a
test, a background check and fees. I think that they also teach a class for
the cert. Check their website for info.

Paul K. Dickman
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