OT - How to Scare Off Coyotes?

[Laurie Forbes]

My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

TIA for any suggestions............

Laurie Forbes

[reader]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Remove the coyotes food sources (outdoor petfood, food scraps, garbage cans,
cats, dogs, etc)

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats
etc. Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other
than bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............

One dead coyote will scare hell out of the rest of them. They'll come howl
one or two nights, then vacate the scene for a year.

LLoyd

[Bruce L. Bergman]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats
etc. Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other
than bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............

One dead coyote will scare hell out of the rest of them. They'll come howl
one or two nights, then vacate the scene for a year.

Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Post by Bruce L. Bergman
On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.

Nope, the OP's friends didn't want to hurt them. A clean kill doesn't hurt,
and it's the best aversion therapy for coyotes. They're smart enough to pay
attention.

Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

LLoyd

[Dave Hinz]

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

Right. "I'm not answering the question you asked, I'm answering the
question you _should have_ asked."

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

Right. "I'm not answering the question you asked, I'm answering the
question you _should have_ asked."

Many, many times in my career I've faced the task of guiding a client
through 'refining' his/her specifications on a system until they came at
least diagonally consistent with physical reality. <G>

LLoyd

[Dave Hinz]

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Post by Dave Hinz
Right. "I'm not answering the question you asked, I'm answering the
question you _should have_ asked."

Many, many times in my career I've faced the task of guiding a client
through 'refining' his/her specifications on a system until they came at
least diagonally consistent with physical reality. <G>

nod-nod yup. Even better if you can get them to do this and think it
was their idea all along.

[Bruce L. Bergman]

Post by Dave Hinz

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Post by Dave Hinz
Right. "I'm not answering the question you asked, I'm answering the
question you _should have_ asked."

Many, many times in my career I've faced the task of guiding a client
through 'refining' his/her specifications on a system until they came at
least diagonally consistent with physical reality. <G>

nod-nod yup. Even better if you can get them to do this and think it
was their idea all along.

It's a good practice, but to do it successfully requires a bit more
subtlety in the <ahem> execution.

--<< Bruce >>--

[RoyJ]

I refer to that is the Engineer providing "value added" during the
project specification stage.

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

Right. "I'm not answering the question you asked, I'm answering the
question you _should have_ asked."

Many, many times in my career I've faced the task of guiding a client
through 'refining' his/her specifications on a system until they came at
least diagonally consistent with physical reality. <G>
LLoyd

[~Roy]

IMHO I could care less if it hurts a coyote or not, as long as it
kills the SOB's........and not just scare it away.preferably a long
slow death....well not realy long and slow and quick would be best,
but I really hate those bastards with a passion. This area is loaded
with them. Even the state bombs them with poison baits from aircraft
and they stillmultiply like crazy. One year I shot 14 of them without
even trying. The kills were all accomplished on my way to or from
work or just by happen chance to see them when I had a gun handy.....I
imagine if I hunted them with a predator call etc I oucl deaily have
more than doubled that number.......

A few years back I found 3 little coyote pups in a den. Gave two away
and kept the third, a female.....it was not like a wolf or fox by
anymeans, and no matter how kind it ws treated, it wsa just as unreuly
and mean as a wild reared pup would have been. I gave it to the
wildlife officer up the road, who shot it in the end. None of the
other two pups were able to be trained either, and were also
destroyed......Its not uncommon to see them setting along the
interstate watching cars go buy without a care in the world.


On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

<>
<>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<>> Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.
<>
<>Nope, the OP's friends didn't want to hurt them. A clean kill doesn't hurt,
<>and it's the best aversion therapy for coyotes. They're smart enough to pay
<>attention.
<>
<>Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.
<>
<>LLoyd
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gunner]

Post by ~Roy
IMHO I could care less if it hurts a coyote or not, as long as it
kills the SOB's........and not just scare it away.preferably a long
slow death....well not realy long and slow and quick would be best,
but I really hate those bastards with a passion. This area is loaded
with them. Even the state bombs them with poison baits from aircraft
and they stillmultiply like crazy. One year I shot 14 of them without
even trying. The kills were all accomplished on my way to or from
work or just by happen chance to see them when I had a gun handy.....I
imagine if I hunted them with a predator call etc I oucl deaily have
more than doubled that number.......
A few years back I found 3 little coyote pups in a den. Gave two away
and kept the third, a female.....it was not like a wolf or fox by
anymeans, and no matter how kind it ws treated, it wsa just as unreuly
and mean as a wild reared pup would have been. I gave it to the
wildlife officer up the road, who shot it in the end. None of the
other two pups were able to be trained either, and were also
destroyed......Its not uncommon to see them setting along the
interstate watching cars go buy without a care in the world.

True enough. Coyotes cannot be domesticated. The best you can do is
come to an agreement with them. I understand that dingos are similar.
Now a cross breed between a dog and a coyote..coydog, may..may be
domesticatable..but frankly..its not worth the effort.

Gunner

Post by ~Roy
On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

<>
<>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<>> Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.
<>
<>Nope, the OP's friends didn't want to hurt them. A clean kill doesn't hurt,
<>and it's the best aversion therapy for coyotes. They're smart enough to pay
<>attention.
<>
<>Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.
<>
<>LLoyd
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

[Martin H. Eastburn]

We had a mixed dog an Coyote - it was a good English collie mix.
He lived to 14. He was a fantastic dog - knowing the wild and the work.
We would leave it for a day or two with food in the house and water -
come back with him sitting at the front window. Then he would eat and drink.

A mix really helps - but the dog even knowing our friends well wouldn't let
anyone near the house while we were gone. Gentle as ever. Good friend.

But he wasn't a wild one.


Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member

Post by ~Roy
IMHO I could care less if it hurts a coyote or not, as long as it
kills the SOB's........and not just scare it away.preferably a long
slow death....well not realy long and slow and quick would be best,
but I really hate those bastards with a passion. This area is loaded
with them. Even the state bombs them with poison baits from aircraft
and they stillmultiply like crazy. One year I shot 14 of them without
even trying. The kills were all accomplished on my way to or from
work or just by happen chance to see them when I had a gun handy.....I
imagine if I hunted them with a predator call etc I oucl deaily have
more than doubled that number.......
A few years back I found 3 little coyote pups in a den. Gave two away
and kept the third, a female.....it was not like a wolf or fox by
anymeans, and no matter how kind it ws treated, it wsa just as unreuly
and mean as a wild reared pup would have been. I gave it to the
wildlife officer up the road, who shot it in the end. None of the
other two pups were able to be trained either, and were also
destroyed......Its not uncommon to see them setting along the
interstate watching cars go buy without a care in the world.
On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

<>
<>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<>> Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.
<>
<>Nope, the OP's friends didn't want to hurt them. A clean kill doesn't hurt,
<>and it's the best aversion therapy for coyotes. They're smart enough to pay
<>attention.
<>
<>Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.
<>
<>LLoyd
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[jim rozen]

In article <F3M8g.9129$***@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
says...

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

This is the corollary to "don't try to compensate for somebody
else's stupidity. It just encourages more of the same."

Ie. don't work too hard to fix somebody else's dumb design or
stupid mistake.

Jim

[Gunner]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:08:06 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman

Post by Bruce L. Bergman
On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats
etc. Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other
than bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............

One dead coyote will scare hell out of the rest of them. They'll come howl
one or two nights, then vacate the scene for a year.

Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.
--<< Bruce >>--

Actually..Lloyd is correct. There is little that will scare them away
for any length of time. You have to either remove the stuff that
attracts them, or kill them..on occasion a couple large dogs may keep
them away. I live in the high desert. Lots of coyotes. I like coyotes.
In fact I named my company after them. But the only way I could keep
them from using my cats as whore durves <G> was to either turn my
malamute loose on them (he would catch and kill them) or shoot them.

I tried paint balls, fire crackers, bb guns, etc etc with little or no
luck. One of the things that gave them a bit of pause..was to go
around and piss on all the vertical stuff in the fence like..at least
3 feet above ground level. This slowed them down for about a week.

Then I had to start shooting them. Shrug. I blew a couple into chunks,
and the rest started making a wide berth around the property.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

[pyotr filipivich]

Post by Gunner

Post by Bruce L. Bergman

Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
One dead coyote will scare hell out of the rest of them. They'll come howl
one or two nights, then vacate the scene for a year.

Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.
--<< Bruce >>--

Actually..Lloyd is correct. There is little that will scare them away
for any length of time. You have to either remove the stuff that
attracts them, or kill them..on occasion a couple large dogs may keep
them away. I live in the high desert. Lots of coyotes. I like coyotes.
In fact I named my company after them. But the only way I could keep
them from using my cats as whore durves <G> was to either turn my
malamute loose on them (he would catch and kill them) or shoot them.
I tried paint balls, fire crackers, bb guns, etc etc with little or no
luck. One of the things that gave them a bit of pause..was to go
around and piss on all the vertical stuff in the fence like..at least
3 feet above ground level. This slowed them down for about a week.
Then I had to start shooting them. Shrug. I blew a couple into chunks,
and the rest started making a wide berth around the property.

My understanding is that coyotes are like wild turkeys, in that if you
walk out empty handed, they'll just watch you. But if you walk out with a
rifle, they'll be long gone. Of course, I could (probably am) wrong on
this occasion.

[rigger]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Are your friends unwilling to harm the animals or are they just without
resourses or the ability to apply them?

dennis
in nca

[Hogleg]

Since this is r.c.m, I suggest lead, jacketted in copper, sent thru a
rifled barrel, at 2800fps.

Once they have overcome the natural fear of humans, we need to
re-aquaint them to the fact that we are a predator that is higher in
the food chain. Otherwise they will continue to harrass small animals
and can move up to small humans. Not a good situation.

Sorry if this seems to be a bit too much of a dose of reality...

John

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

Post by Hogleg
Since this is r.c.m, I suggest lead, jacketted in copper, sent thru a
rifled barrel, at 2800fps.
Once they have overcome the natural fear of humans, we need to
re-aquaint them to the fact that we are a predator that is higher in
the food chain. Otherwise they will continue to harrass small animals
and can move up to small humans. Not a good situation.
Sorry if this seems to be a bit too much of a dose of reality...
John

Don't be sorry. Your comments are right on target. As much as I like those
little wild dogs, they're a serious threat. There was a report recently of
one attacking a child. It may not happen often, but it's a reality.
They're smart and cunning animals that should be respected, and feared under
the wrong conditions.

Harold

[Jim Stewart]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Get bigger dogs....

Worked for my brother.

[ED]

Post by Jim Stewart

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Get bigger dogs....

There's fellow who crosses wolf hounds with grey hounds in
this locality. It's said his dogs are hell on four legs to a coyote.

ED

Post by Jim Stewart
Worked for my brother.

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[Steve B]

Post by ED
There's fellow who crosses wolf hounds with grey hounds in
this locality. It's said his dogs are hell on four legs to a coyote.
ED

Actually, the best cross breed is a pit bull and a collie. It will rip your
arm off, but then it will go for help.

Steve

[ED]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 13:01:05 -0700, "Steve B"

Post by Steve B

Post by ED
There's fellow who crosses wolf hounds with grey hounds in
this locality. It's said his dogs are hell on four legs to a coyote.
ED

Actually, the best cross breed is a pit bull and a collie. It will rip your
arm off, but then it will go for help.

A medium sized pack of coyotes will make short work of a pit bull,
or rottweiler type dog.

I've seen a single coyote come out and actually
lure a dog to come after him only to have the rest of the pack laying
in wait back in the brush. I know of a rottie getting mugged and
killed a few years ago by a pack using this ploy.

My inlaws go out with the coyote houndsman who runs these grey hound
crosses. They cruise ranch country with the dogs in the
truck bed. When they jump up a coyote they sic the
hounds on em. These dogs have the heart of a lion...
the pelts pay for some of the dogs food and gas...the
ranchers also give them hunting rights for other game in turn. Sweet.

ED

Post by Steve B
Steve

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[Steve B]

Post by ED
On Thu, 11 May 2006 13:01:05 -0700, "Steve B"

Post by Steve B

Post by ED
There's fellow who crosses wolf hounds with grey hounds in
this locality. It's said his dogs are hell on four legs to a coyote.
ED

Actually, the best cross breed is a pit bull and a collie. It will rip your
arm off, but then it will go for help.

A medium sized pack of coyotes will make short work of a pit bull,
or rottweiler type dog.
I've seen a single coyote come out and actually
lure a dog to come after him only to have the rest of the pack laying
in wait back in the brush. I know of a rottie getting mugged and
killed a few years ago by a pack using this ploy.
My inlaws go out with the coyote houndsman who runs these grey hound
crosses. They cruise ranch country with the dogs in the
truck bed. When they jump up a coyote they sic the
hounds on em. These dogs have the heart of a lion...
the pelts pay for some of the dogs food and gas...the
ranchers also give them hunting rights for other game in turn. Sweet.
ED

Post by Steve B
Steve

Sounds as exciting as wild pigs in Texas.

Steve

Post by ED
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[Andy Asberry]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:30:46 -0700, "Steve B"

Post by Steve B
Sounds as exciting as wild pigs in Texas.
Steve

I'm not sure if that is facetious remark but I do know something of
wild pigs.

If you want an adrenaline high that will take you a week to get off
of, picture this.

You're hanging by the horn off the side of a horse that is running
flat out. And you're urging him to go faster because the boar that
weighs half as much as the horse is making fringe out of your chaps.

You would forget that your original mission was to put out a salt
block if that block weren't in a feed sack tied to the saddle horn and
is now bloodying your nose.


--Andy Asberry recommends NewsGuy--

[Steve B]

Post by Andy Asberry
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:30:46 -0700, "Steve B"

Post by Steve B
Sounds as exciting as wild pigs in Texas.
Steve

I'm not sure if that is facetious remark but I do know something of
wild pigs.
If you want an adrenaline high that will take you a week to get off
of, picture this.
You're hanging by the horn off the side of a horse that is running
flat out. And you're urging him to go faster because the boar that
weighs half as much as the horse is making fringe out of your chaps.
You would forget that your original mission was to put out a salt
block if that block weren't in a feed sack tied to the saddle horn and
is now bloodying your nose.

Ayup. Feral hogs in Liberty and Montgomery county, just NE of Houston.

Steve

[Ned Simmons]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
the property.

Ned Simmons

[unknown]

Post by Ned Simmons

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
the property.
Ned Simmons

12 guage shotgun and rock salt. If that doesn't work, substitute
buckshot.

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

[coondog]

Post by unknown

Post by Ned Simmons

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
the property.
Ned Simmons

12 guage shotgun and rock salt. If that doesn't work, substitute
buckshot.
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Excellent ....Non-lethal but very painful. Although the ACME idea is
pretty good also.

[unknown]

Post by coondog

Post by unknown

Post by Ned Simmons

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
the property.
Ned Simmons

12 guage shotgun and rock salt. If that doesn't work, substitute
buckshot.
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

If rock salt does'nt catch their attention, they can't be salvaged.
Same goes for marauding dogs (sheep, chickens, cattle etc).

Post by coondog
Excellent ....Non-lethal but very painful. Although the ACME idea is
pretty good also.

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

[Bruce L. Bergman]

Post by unknown

Post by Ned Simmons

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
the property.
Ned Simmons

12 guage shotgun and rock salt. If that doesn't work, substitute
buckshot.

12-Ga Sting-ball rounds or rubber baton rounds would be perfect, you
want to get their attention and let them know that hanging around
where people live isn't safe. But you may have to go through your
friend at the Police or Sheriff Dept. to get them.

They have some nice 40mm and 50mm rubber riot rounds with a CS or
Pepper Gas payload that releases on impact, and I'd think that would
make a much more lasting impression... But if you want to try that
route you need to borrow the grenade launcher to go with them.

--<< Bruce >>--

[~Roy]

Hmmmmmmm
I think something along the lines of a M-79 grenade launcher with HE
or WP rounds as a minimum, or perhaps a 81 mm mortar with HE or
WP........preference would be call in an airstrike of my old buddies
in the 187th FW and let em put some JDAMS on target......or the U S
Army guard and their Apaches and lay down a barrage of
hellfire's.....Close would be close enough I would suspect ;-)


On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:26:55 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman

<>
<>>
<>>>> My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
<>>>> close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
<>>>> Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
<>>>> bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
<>>>
<>>>Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
<>>>the property.
<>>>
<>>>Ned Simmons
<>>
<>>12 guage shotgun and rock salt. If that doesn't work, substitute
<>>buckshot.
<>
<> 12-Ga Sting-ball rounds or rubber baton rounds would be perfect, you
<>want to get their attention and let them know that hanging around
<>where people live isn't safe. But you may have to go through your
<>friend at the Police or Sheriff Dept. to get them.
<>
<> They have some nice 40mm and 50mm rubber riot rounds with a CS or
<>Pepper Gas payload that releases on impact, and I'd think that would
<>make a much more lasting impression... But if you want to try that
<>route you need to borrow the grenade launcher to go with them.
<>
<> --<< Bruce >>--

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Rex B]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

We had this issue come up in our neighborhood recently. We're in a
suburban community which happens to not be in city limits (thank God).
Coyotes have been coming into backyards and making a racket, probably
thinning the cat population.
At a neighborhood association meeting we asked the sheriff's deputy
attending, for advice. "Shoot 'em. They aren't protected, they will eat
your pets and they can threaten humans".

[unknown]

Post by Rex B

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

We had this issue come up in our neighborhood recently. We're in a
suburban community which happens to not be in city limits (thank God).
Coyotes have been coming into backyards and making a racket, probably
thinning the cat population.
At a neighborhood association meeting we asked the sheriff's deputy
attending, for advice. "Shoot 'em. They aren't protected, they will eat
your pets and they can threaten humans".

Sinse the fox family and I think a pair of Coyotes moved in a few
blocks away (undeveloped parkland and stormwater management area)the
rabbit population has really dropped of. Still too many of 'em, but
not so bad you can't drive down the road without hitting a few any
more. Wish something would start feasting on the tree rats!

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

[Steve B]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats
etc. Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other
than bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Two come to mind. FidoShock and motion activated sprinklers.

Steve

[Lew Hartswick]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Frankly I'd rather have the coyotes than the darn neighbor cats and
dogs around craping in the yard.
...lew...

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 22:16:51 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew

Post by Lew Hartswick

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Laurie, have your neighbors contact wildlife protectors in your area
and have them trapped (yes, and the coyotes, too) and relocated 100+
miles away. Cha CHING!

Post by Lew Hartswick
Frankly I'd rather have the coyotes than the darn neighbor cats and
dogs around craping in the yard.

Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.


---
-=Everything in Moderation, including moderation.=-
---
http://www.diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) laptop privacy/glare guards

[~Roy]

Larry you think along the same lines as I do.....

Regards

On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:14:17 -0700, Larry Jaques

<>On Thu, 11 May 2006 22:16:51 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
<>
<>>> My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
<>>> close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
<>>> Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
<>>> bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
<>>>
<>>> TIA for any suggestions............
<>>>
<>>> Laurie Forbes
<>
<>Laurie, have your neighbors contact wildlife protectors in your area
<>and have them trapped (yes, and the coyotes, too) and relocated 100+
<>miles away. Cha CHING!
<>
<>
<>
<>>Frankly I'd rather have the coyotes than the darn neighbor cats and
<>>dogs around craping in the yard.
<>
<>Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
<>some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
<>me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
<>the day and night without quieting it.
<>
<>There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
<>the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
<>I reckon.
<>
<>
<>---
<> -=Everything in Moderation, including moderation.=-
<> ---
<>http://www.diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) laptop privacy/glare guards

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Rex B]

Post by Larry Jaques
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.


Rex

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

snip--

. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.
Rex

I went through that with a neighbor years ago. His dog would light up
late at night and bark endlessly. I started calling him on the
phone---letting it ring until he answered, then hang up. It often took a
large number of rings to arouse him. I did that several times until he
finally got the message. He wasn't a neighbor I could talk to-----had a
tendency to ignore not only us, but the balance of the neighbors----so that
wasn't an option. Want to remain anonymous? Be certain to dial the code
that prevents caller ID from identifying you.

Harold

[unknown]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 10:50:58 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"

Post by Harold and Susan Vordos
snip--
. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.
Rex

Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Post by Harold and Susan Vordos
I went through that with a neighbor years ago. His dog would light up
late at night and bark endlessly. I started calling him on the
phone---letting it ring until he answered, then hang up. It often took a
large number of rings to arouse him. I did that several times until he
finally got the message. He wasn't a neighbor I could talk to-----had a
tendency to ignore not only us, but the balance of the neighbors----so that
wasn't an option. Want to remain anonymous? Be certain to dial the code
that prevents caller ID from identifying you.
Harold

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

[Rex B]

Post by Larry Jaques
. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

I live outside city limits, and glad of it.
I'll put up with the barking dog as part of the many freedoms I enjoy
without things like city inspectors, firearms restrictions etc.

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 16:30:14 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Rex

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

I live outside city limits, and glad of it.
I'll put up with the barking dog as part of the many freedoms I enjoy
without things like city inspectors, firearms restrictions etc.

I live outside the city limits, too, so county noise regs aren't as
tight as city. Additionally, taxes are exactly HALF that of city
dwellers. But I still don't want to put up with barking dogs. I'll
see if I can get their name and phone number from their neighbors (who
may be as angry as I am at the constant noise.)

The noise level dropped 70% when I put in the dual-glazed windows, and
with foam earplugs, I can get right to sleep even if the GDMFSOB dog
is going off right then, so I've mellowed out a whole lot since it
first started.

These sock cucking dog owners all must be STONE DEAF, y'reckon?


---
"Money can't buy you happiness...but it does bring you a more pleasant
form of misery." -- Spike Milligan
---
http://www.diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) Laptop Privacy/Glare Guards

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

Post by unknown
On Fri, 12 May 2006 10:50:58 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"

Post by Harold and Susan Vordos
snip--
. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new

perspective,

Post by unknown

Post by Harold and Susan Vordos

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.
Rex

Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Now that's a punishment I could get into. I'm not all that patient with
people that think their right to "own" a critter exceed my rights to not
have to put up with the damned thing. I'd be quick to sign the complaint.

Harold

[Steve B]

Post by unknown
Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Warning, this is a bit long.

How I spent my last summer vacation.

The dog across the street, a lovely Lab, was left alone by its owners, who
worked at a local casino from 6pm to 2am. They left at 5 and came home
around 3-4 am. The dog would bark in three barks, wait five seconds, and do
it again, and again, and again for ten hours.

We sent anonymous letters asking that they do something about the dog. No
results.

We called the police who gave us Animal Control's number. They said we
could sign a complaint, but then we would have to go to court as the victim
in order for the thing to proceed, and the neighbor would know who turned
them in. We wanted to keep peace in the neighborhood, and since this guy
looked like a Soprano affiliate, we opted to try something else.

It was evening on the first call to Animal Control, and we got a recording.
After that, we called and called and called every day. We were almost
always channelled to a recording device, and when we did talk to a human,
they said that they had sent out an officer, and the dog was not barking. I
think they used their caller ID to avoid us. When we called in while the
dog was barking, we would walk in front of the house with our phone and say,
"Can you hear this dog barking?" woof, woof, woof ............. woof, woof,
woof ...................... woof, woof, woof .......
(the sound of a Lab barking)

One day, Animal Control called us at 4:30 AM to tell us that they had sent
an officer out there, and the dog was not barking. My wife fielded the
call, and acted just like she was up anyway. She's a light sleeper. Not
sure why they called us at 0430.

The dog kept on. We kept on calling.

Finally, we saw our councilman at church. We told him about the dog, the
0430 call from Animal Control, and the repeated reports. He said, "I will
take care of this," and that was all he said.

The dog stopped barking a couple of days later. I imagine a couple of butts
got chewed at Animal Control. We then got a letter from the DA's office
asking us if we wanted to file a complaint and prosecute. Along with that
question was a long list of things that we should know about before we filed
a complaint, including that we could be prosecuted for filing a false report
if it turned out to be unjustified, and that the people who owned the dog
might sue US for harassment.

But the dog did stop barking.

I own two dogs, but I was having some serious thoughts about doing harm to
that dog.

Steve

[Don Foreman]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:04:24 -0700, "Steve B"

Post by Steve B

Post by unknown
Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Warning, this is a bit long.
How I spent my last summer vacation.
The dog across the street, a lovely Lab, was left alone by its owners, who
worked at a local casino from 6pm to 2am. They left at 5 and came home
around 3-4 am. The dog would bark in three barks, wait five seconds, and do
it again, and again, and again for ten hours.
We sent anonymous letters asking that they do something about the dog. No
results.
We called the police who gave us Animal Control's number. They said we
could sign a complaint, but then we would have to go to court as the victim
in order for the thing to proceed, and the neighbor would know who turned
them in. We wanted to keep peace in the neighborhood, and since this guy
looked like a Soprano affiliate, we opted to try something else.
It was evening on the first call to Animal Control, and we got a recording.
After that, we called and called and called every day. We were almost
always channelled to a recording device, and when we did talk to a human,
they said that they had sent out an officer, and the dog was not barking. I
think they used their caller ID to avoid us. When we called in while the
dog was barking, we would walk in front of the house with our phone and say,
"Can you hear this dog barking?" woof, woof, woof ............. woof, woof,
woof ...................... woof, woof, woof .......
(the sound of a Lab barking)
One day, Animal Control called us at 4:30 AM to tell us that they had sent
an officer out there, and the dog was not barking. My wife fielded the
call, and acted just like she was up anyway. She's a light sleeper. Not
sure why they called us at 0430.
The dog kept on. We kept on calling.
Finally, we saw our councilman at church. We told him about the dog, the
0430 call from Animal Control, and the repeated reports. He said, "I will
take care of this," and that was all he said.
The dog stopped barking a couple of days later. I imagine a couple of butts
got chewed at Animal Control. We then got a letter from the DA's office
asking us if we wanted to file a complaint and prosecute. Along with that
question was a long list of things that we should know about before we filed
a complaint, including that we could be prosecuted for filing a false report
if it turned out to be unjustified, and that the people who owned the dog
might sue US for harassment.
But the dog did stop barking.
I own two dogs, but I was having some serious thoughts about doing harm to
that dog.
Steve

I'm glad you didn't harm the dog. It's the owners that are to blame.
A lab can be broken of the barking habit. Been there, done that. My
beloved Charlie fell into that for a little while when she was about
5. I got a couple of friendly complaints. What finally worked was
to duct-tape her mouth shut for about 4 hours on a cool day when
panting wasn't required. Man, she hated that duct tape! After 4
hours of silent solitude and eventual resignation to her misery, the
tape was removed none too gently and then she got a dairy queen as
reward for her (enforced) good behavior. Man, that dog loved her
ice cream cones!

Lesson learned, was never forgotten for the remainder of her 18-year
life. I know labs aren't supposed to live that long, but Charlie
didn't know that.

I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

[w***@sbcglobal.net]

If lead poisoning doesn't work, then just mix large quantities of rat
poison with some hamburger. Keep your own pets chained or locked up
until the crisis is over. Any extra critters you nail this way are just
a bonus. Had some neighbors out here in the country threaten to shoot
our dogs for being on their property, well we're farm people too.
Needless to say they got the pictures of their dogs on our property
handed to them along with two shotgun shells. That took the wind out of
their sails right quick. Anyway, what I was trying to say with that
little story, is if one of the neighborhood pets gets into your coyote
treat, oh well, that's the risk you take when you let your pets run
free.

[Gunner]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman

Post by Don Foreman

Post by Steve B
I own two dogs, but I was having some serious thoughts about doing harm to
that dog.
Steve

I'm glad you didn't harm the dog. It's the owners that are to blame.
A lab can be broken of the barking habit. Been there, done that. My
beloved Charlie fell into that for a little while when she was about
5. I got a couple of friendly complaints. What finally worked was
to duct-tape her mouth shut for about 4 hours on a cool day when
panting wasn't required. Man, she hated that duct tape! After 4
hours of silent solitude and eventual resignation to her misery, the
tape was removed none too gently and then she got a dairy queen as
reward for her (enforced) good behavior. Man, that dog loved her
ice cream cones!
Lesson learned, was never forgotten for the remainder of her 18-year
life. I know labs aren't supposed to live that long, but Charlie
didn't know that.
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

Works great, keeps peace.

http://radiofence.com/bark_collars.htm

One of many many sites, not counting Ebay.
http://search.ebay.com/barking-collars_W0QQfromZR40

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner

Post by Gunner
On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman

Post by Don Foreman
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.
If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) <big sigh>
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

[Gerald Miller]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner

Post by Gunner
On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman

Post by Don Foreman
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.
If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) <big sigh>
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)
AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

This last comment would particularly apply to one vague acquaintance
who got herself a somewhat yappy small dog, then had it's vocal cords
cut so it wouldn't annoy her so much.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

[Gunner]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:00:52 -0400, Gerald Miller

Post by Gerald Miller
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner

Post by Gunner
On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman

Post by Don Foreman
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.
If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) <big sigh>
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)
AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

This last comment would particularly apply to one vague acquaintance
who got herself a somewhat yappy small dog, then had it's vocal cords
cut so it wouldn't annoy her so much.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

When I was a kid, one summer I was pumping gas, and this blue haired
over done lady in this huge Caddy with tail fins and lots of chrome
came in for gas. As I was pumping and cleaning windows and checking
oil, I noticed this poodle was bouncing off the inside of the car,
mouth just a going. I remembered thinking that car was really really
sound proof, until I noticed her arm hanging out the window...

I asked about the dog, and in the sweetest grandmother tones..she said
" I love my little precious, but the little bastard was driving me
nuts with his barking so I had his vocal cords cut", then she smiled
sweetly, handed me her $5 for the 20 gallon fillup and then drove
off, leaving me standing next to the pump with my jaw hanging down and
the giggles starting to come on.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[Don Foreman]

Post by Gunner
When I was a kid, one summer I was pumping gas, and this blue haired
over done lady in this huge Caddy with tail fins and lots of chrome
came in for gas. As I was pumping and cleaning windows and checking
oil, I noticed this poodle was bouncing off the inside of the car,
mouth just a going. I remembered thinking that car was really really
sound proof, until I noticed her arm hanging out the window...
I asked about the dog, and in the sweetest grandmother tones..she said
" I love my little precious, but the little bastard was driving me
nuts with his barking so I had his vocal cords cut", then she smiled
sweetly, handed me her $5 for the 20 gallon fillup and then drove
off, leaving me standing next to the pump with my jaw hanging down and
the giggles starting to come on.
Gunner

A grandmother near and dear to me was messing around with seedlings,
dirt and little plastic trays in the kitchen sink yesterday. I
asked her if she hugged her plantlings and talked to them
encouragingly.

In a soft, dulcet maternal voice she sweetly murmurred,
"grow, you little sonofabitch!"

I'm glad I didn't have a mouthfull of coffee at the time.....

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:00:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,

Post by Gerald Miller
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

This last comment would particularly apply to one vague acquaintance
who got herself a somewhat yappy small dog, then had it's vocal cords
cut so it wouldn't annoy her so much.

Sorry, Gerry, but I'd love to see lots of vocal chords cut since most
people aren't responsible enough to own pets. Hmm, maybe if the noisy
owners themselves had to have theirs cut, too, upon noise
complaints... BUT, a vet I talked with said they just grow back (pet
vocal chords) in 6 months, so unbunch your panties. ;)

Ideally, -nobody- should own pets. Look what has happened in the name
of greed: tens of thousands of exotic birds are suffocated during
smuggling operations each year. Many dog breeds have serious health
problems due to inbreeding. I could go on, but Google "pet abuse" for
some real scary DAILY abuse news. It's absolutely shameful.


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

[Gunner]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner

Post by Gunner
On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman

Post by Don Foreman
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.
If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) <big sigh>
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)
AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.

They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Gunner

Post by Larry Jaques
--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 05:14:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner

Post by Gerald Miller
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) <big sigh>
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)
AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.
They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Yeah, BUT, if they hadn't complied and someone other than you had
actually poisoned the dog, you'd be in the hot seat and possibly
jailed until they figured out it wasn't you. And couldn't they yank
your CCW license for that and decide not to give it back?


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

[Gunner]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 06:23:32 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques

Post by Gunner
They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Yeah, BUT, if they hadn't complied and someone other than you had
actually poisoned the dog, you'd be in the hot seat and possibly
jailed until they figured out it wasn't you. And couldn't they yank
your CCW license for that and decide not to give it back?

They would have to have more than suspicion to do any such thing.

Like a bulk sack of Chef Boyarde meatballs soaked in antifreez and a
slingshot.

Shrug..its far harder to prove such things than one would think.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[Don Foreman]

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

[Rex B]

Don, I'm not quite grasping what you intend.
Do you mount the Hartman whistle at the focal point of the dish, or do
you run it through a microphone/amp/tweeter?

For that matter, why not mount the whistle at near the offending
fenceline, connected, with a remote-actuated air valve?.
Could be a pull-wire, or some sort of R/C item.

That would also probably affect the noisy teenagers at 2:00 AM on
worknights. At least the girls would leave, and the boys would leave
shortly after ;)

Post by Don Foreman

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.
The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.
The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.
I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

[Don Foreman]

Post by Rex B
Don, I'm not quite grasping what you intend.
Do you mount the Hartman whistle at the focal point of the dish, or do
you run it through a microphone/amp/tweeter?

At close range and full power the whistle would probably destroy the
microphone/tweeter.

Place it at the focus of the dish, which is where the LNA was. Those
dishes are offset fed sections of a paraboloid so it isn't obvious
where the line-of-sight is. So, a tweeter down range, with a meter
either with long wires or a spotting scope, to act as a mike/sensor.
Hunt around until you're hitting the mike, adjust focus for max output
(adjusting aim as necessary), then adjust optical sight so it's also
aimed at the distant mike.

Such a setup is slightly clandestine because it doesn't look like
it's pointing in the direction it is. If mounted upside down it would
look like it was pointed at the sky when it's line of sight would be
horizontal.

Post by Rex B
For that matter, why not mount the whistle at near the offending
fenceline, connected, with a remote-actuated air valve?.
Could be a pull-wire, or some sort of R/C item.

Might work, but the dish does provide a lot of directional gain in
the beam. A lot, a factor of several thousand over an
omnidirectional whistle.

Post by Rex B
That would also probably affect the noisy teenagers at 2:00 AM on
worknights. At least the girls would leave, and the boys would leave
shortly after ;)

Post by Don Foreman

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.
The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.
The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.
I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

[jim rozen]

Post by Don Foreman
The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

Heh. Doggy-B-gone meets home shop machinist/EE.

Telescopic sights. Parabolic dishes. Home-built stepper motor
azimuth/elevation drives.

Closed loop tracking system.

Poor coyote doesn't have a chance. He'll have to start importing
the poor things to provide a proper target-rich environment
for the testing phase.

Jim

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:23:03 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don

Post by Don Foreman

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

Excellent!

Post by Don Foreman
The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

I wonder what the sound level would be at 1,000'. The offending pet is
across a 2 acre field, the RR tracks, and a street.

Post by Don Foreman
The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.
I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

If you would like to build 3 (so you're never caught short again, the
NEXT time a mutt moves in) I'll see if Rex will go in with me to pay
your costs. I don't have a lathe yet, but do have a spare Dish Network
dish. What wavelength are those, anyway? (OoK, Wiki say "KU band.")


---
"Money can't buy you happiness...but it does bring you a more pleasant
form of misery." -- Spike Milligan
---
http://www.diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) Laptop Privacy/Glare Guards

[Don Foreman]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 21:34:14 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:23:03 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don

Post by Don Foreman

Post by Rex B

Post by Larry Jaques
There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

Excellent!

Post by Don Foreman
The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

I wonder what the sound level would be at 1,000'. The offending pet is
across a 2 acre field, the RR tracks, and a street.

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Post by Larry Jaques

Post by Don Foreman
The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.
I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

If you would like to build 3 (so you're never caught short again, the
NEXT time a mutt moves in) I'll see if Rex will go in with me to pay
your costs. I don't have a lathe yet, but do have a spare Dish Network
dish. What wavelength are those, anyway? (OoK, Wiki say "KU band.")

I think DirecTV is in the range of 12.2 to 12.7 GHz, lambda of about
1.8 cm or 0.72 in. 22 KHz ultrasound has lambda of 1.5 cm or 0.6 in,
pretty comparable.

I'm stacked with projects at the moment, but I'll put a Hartmann back
on the "ta do" list. Right now I'm trying to add electric drive to
my boat lift winch and "goin' to the lake" time is getting real close
even in MN. I'm adding some sprockets and adapting the motor and
planetary gear drive from a scrounged ATV winch. I'd rather push a
button than wind that 40" handwheel 40 revs with 20 lb of tangential
force every time I wanna go out for a little while. A commercial
gadget to do this runs over $500. I have about $10 in it so far, my
time is free. Unfortunately, my wife has figured out the "my time
is free" concept so there are plenty of honeydo projects.

I'm also welding up a "drop dolly" so I can roll a new 36" high (on
casters) tool chest under my 33" high bench.

Man, I bet there are a bunch of wet, cold walleye fishers out there
today for the opener, but they might well catch some fish with
weather as lousy as it is. They'll earn 'em!

Post by Larry Jaques
---
"Money can't buy you happiness...but it does bring you a more pleasant
form of misery." -- Spike Milligan
---
http://www.diversify.com NoteSHADES(tm) Laptop Privacy/Glare Guards

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don

Post by Don Foreman
I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

Post by Don Foreman
I think DirecTV is in the range of 12.2 to 12.7 GHz, lambda of about
1.8 cm or 0.72 in. 22 KHz ultrasound has lambda of 1.5 cm or 0.6 in,
pretty comparable.
I'm stacked with projects at the moment, but I'll put a Hartmann back
on the "ta do" list.

Grazie.

Post by Don Foreman
Right now I'm trying to add electric drive to
my boat lift winch and "goin' to the lake" time is getting real close
even in MN. I'm adding some sprockets and adapting the motor and
planetary gear drive from a scrounged ATV winch. I'd rather push a
button than wind that 40" handwheel 40 revs with 20 lb of tangential
force every time I wanna go out for a little while. A commercial
gadget to do this runs over $500. I have about $10 in it so far, my

Cool. I spent the day at my GF's riverfront property. It's on the
Applegate River about 10 miles from my house, so we're going to go out
there more this summer once the frigid water warms up. It's an
unimproved forssted section about 49 acres, with about 500' of
riverfront access. She needs an ATV for us to ride, too.

Post by Don Foreman
time is free. Unfortunately, my wife has figured out the "my time
is free" concept so there are plenty of honeydo projects.

What do you charge her? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more>

Post by Don Foreman
I'm also welding up a "drop dolly" so I can roll a new 36" high (on
casters) tool chest under my 33" high bench.

That sounds like a very rewarding project. Putting heavy things on
wheels is one of my favorite things to do.

Post by Don Foreman
Man, I bet there are a bunch of wet, cold walleye fishers out there
today for the opener, but they might well catch some fish with
weather as lousy as it is. They'll earn 'em!

I'd like to bring home a nice steelhead sometime soon. Maybe I should
get a license and figure out what their run times are...


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

[Don Foreman]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don

Post by Don Foreman
I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.

This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.

Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

[Gunner]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:46:12 -0500, Don Foreman

Post by Don Foreman
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques

Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don

Post by Don Foreman
I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.
This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.
Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.
I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.
Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[axolotl]

Post by Don Foreman
The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave,

Umm...?

Kevin Gallimore

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[MikeMandaville]

We used to have a couple of dozen cats. Now we have just two or three
black ones, which I think were simply too dark for the coyote to see,
because he only came at night. I'm glad that the cats are gone,
myself, but I do understand how this could be a problem for somebody
else.

[Don Foreman]

Post by axolotl

Post by Don Foreman
The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave,

Umm...?
Kevin Gallimore

Um what, Kevin? Speed of sound in air is about 1100 ft/sec, speed
of em radiation is 3*10^8 meters/sec. Downlink part of Ka band is
about 18 GHz, lambda is about 1.67 cm. Lambda of 22000 Hz sound in
air is about 1.52 cm.

DirecTV is in Ku band between 12.2 to 12.7 Ghz, lambda is about 2.4
cm.

Post by axolotl
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[axolotl]

Post by Don Foreman
Um what, Kevin?

Um.. Kevin had another rough week, and his abused mind sped right by
"ultrasound" without looking.


Kevin Gallimore

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[Gerald Miller]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 22:16:51 GMT, Lew Hartswick

Post by Lew Hartswick

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Frankly I'd rather have the coyotes than the darn neighbor cats and
dogs around craping in the yard.
...lew...

The city contractor for animal control has offered to provide live
traps for me to catch sh*tty cats on my property. I have been talking
this up in the neighbourhood. My next step will be to post signs
facing both streets (corner lot):

MISSING CAT?
check with animal
control at xxx-xxxx
That is where I take
any I catch on my
property.


We do have a bylaw requiring people to license and confine cats.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

"Gerald Miller" <***@rogers.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
snip----

Post by Gerald Miller
We do have a bylaw requiring people to license and confine cats.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

As it should be!

Harold

[Steve B]

Post by Harold and Susan Vordos
snip----

Post by Gerald Miller
We do have a bylaw requiring people to license and confine cats.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

As it should be!
Harold

I used to do a lot of wrought iron work. People would have me make fences
and fence extensions and gates and all manner of stuff to "keep their cats
in the yard."

You need a really high wall, or a roofed enclosure to confine a cat.

I'd build it for them, and know it wouldn't work.

Steve

[Rex B]

Post by Lew Hartswick
Frankly I'd rather have the coyotes than the darn neighbor cats and
dogs around craping in the yard.

I was really rooting for one of the local coyotes to make a meal of the
yappy minpin behind us.

[Mike]

Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up

[Steve B]

Post by Mike
Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up

I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
explain how this sponge thing works.

Steve

[~Roy]

I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
hamburger meat.

Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.

I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
thus creating peritonitis
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"

<>
<>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>
<>
<>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
<>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>
<>Steve
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[jusme]

Roy,

I am curious so I would ask you a question. How big is your dick?

Thank you.

Post by ~Roy
I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
hamburger meat.
Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.
I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
thus creating peritonitis
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"

<>
<>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>
<>
<>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can.
Please
<>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>
<>Steve
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[~Roy]

Well asshole in inches it would still be higher than your IQ no
matter how big it is, and for the record, your momma loves it just
fine, as does your sister and wife...now run along and go back to the
rec.ponds forum like a good little sock puppet. Guess with me doing
your mom and wife and sister is keeping you form getting any huh?

<>Roy,
<>
<>I am curious so I would ask you a question. How big is your dick?
<>
<>Thank you.
<>
<>
<>
<>>
<>> I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
<>> of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
<>> miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
<>> 1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
<>> hamburger meat.
<>>
<>> Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
<>> and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
<>> cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
<>> spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
<>> during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
<>> makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
<>> some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
<>> combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
<>> hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.
<>>
<>> I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
<>> blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
<>> thus creating peritonitis
<>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"
<>>>><>
<>>>><>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>>><>>
<>>>><>
<>>>><>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can.
<>>>>Please
<>>>><>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>>>><>
<>>>><>Steve
<>>>><>
<>>
<>>
<>> ==============================================
<>> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
<>> "The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
<>> given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
<>> my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
<>> only worth $1.....
<>> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[jusme]

Roy,

It was a serious question. I would really like to know how big your dick
is.

I am not trying to provoke you or insult you so, there really is no need to
try to insult me either.

Thank you.

Post by ~Roy
Well asshole in inches it would still be higher than your IQ no
matter how big it is, and for the record, your momma loves it just
fine, as does your sister and wife...now run along and go back to the
rec.ponds forum like a good little sock puppet. Guess with me doing
your mom and wife and sister is keeping you form getting any huh?

<>Roy,
<>
<>I am curious so I would ask you a question. How big is your dick?
<>
<>Thank you.
<>
<>
<>
<>>
<>> I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
<>> of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
<>> miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
<>> 1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
<>> hamburger meat.
<>>
<>> Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
<>> and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
<>> cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
<>> spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
<>> during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
<>> makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
<>> some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
<>> combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
<>> hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.
<>>
<>> I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
<>> blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
<>> thus creating peritonitis
<>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"
<>>>><>
<>>>><>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>>><>>
<>>>><>
<>>>><>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can.
<>>>>Please
<>>>><>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>>>><>
<>>>><>Steve
<>>>><>
<>>
<>>
<>> ==============================================
<>> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
<>> "The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
<>> given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
<>> my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
<>> only worth $1.....
<>> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gunner]

Post by ~Roy
I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
hamburger meat.
Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.
I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
thus creating peritonitis

Its far simpler to simply mix in some antifreeze with the raw
hamburger.

But its an ugly ugly way to kill any animal. And you may kill some
that you dont want to kill.

Best to simply head shoot em.


Gunner

Post by ~Roy
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"

<>
<>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>
<>
<>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
<>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>
<>Steve
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

[ED]

Amateurs--- get some M44 cyanide guns and do it properly
if poision is the tool of choice. A tad non selective for me
but much more humane than all this other crap suggested .

A long term solution for the OP is electric fencing, expensive
but works 100% and is totally non lethal.

ED

Post by Gunner
Its far simpler to simply mix in some antifreeze with the raw
hamburger.
But its an ugly ugly way to kill any animal. And you may kill some
that you dont want to kill.
Best to simply head shoot em.
Gunner

Post by ~Roy
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"

<>
<>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>
<>
<>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
<>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>
<>Steve
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Gunner]

Post by ED
Amateurs--- get some M44 cyanide guns and do it properly
if poision is the tool of choice. A tad non selective for me
but much more humane than all this other crap suggested .

I recall a couple cases over the years where curious small children
managed to trigger an M44, even though the setter followed all the
directives for signage etc etc. Including IRRC..an illegal alien who
was coming over the border.

No survivors.

Post by ED
A long term solution for the OP is electric fencing, expensive
but works 100% and is totally non lethal.
ED

Post by Gunner
Its far simpler to simply mix in some antifreeze with the raw
hamburger.
But its an ugly ugly way to kill any animal. And you may kill some
that you dont want to kill.
Best to simply head shoot em.
Gunner

Post by ~Roy
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"

<>
<>> Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up
<>>
<>
<>I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
<>explain how this sponge thing works.
<>
<>Steve
<>

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

[ED]

Post by Gunner

Post by ED
Amateurs--- get some M44 cyanide guns and do it properly
if poision is the tool of choice. A tad non selective for me
but much more humane than all this other crap suggested .

I recall a couple cases over the years where curious small children
managed to trigger an M44, even though the setter followed all the
directives for signage etc etc. Including IRRC..an illegal alien who
was coming over the border.
No survivors.

That's a new one to me, but anythings possible.
M44's are a restricted device, and with good reason.
But much better than compound 1080,
which is an extemely lethal substance and very dangerous IMO

The big sheep outfits hire arial gunners and
trappers paid for with public funds.

There's a wolf working east of here that is wrecking
havoc on the sheepmen. They make coyotes look
good.


ED

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[daniel peterman]

how about antifreeze? Cut the side open on a gallon jug and put it out
where they frequent Keep your other pets away.
Idea two... Paint balls filled with pepper spray or some other foul
material.
Idea three... archery practice silent but deadly

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

Post by daniel peterman
how about antifreeze?

Real bad idea. It attracts all kinds of critters, most of which are
desirable.

Harold

[Laurie Forbes]

Post by ~Roy
I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
hamburger meat.
Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.
I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
thus creating peritonitis

A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.

Thanks however to those few who provided intelligent responses to my
query.............

Laurie Forbes

[s***@trippin.net]

Post by Laurie Forbes
A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.

So are we. This is a metal working ng, remember?

Perhaps you should ask Oprah or Dr. Phil how to make coyotes go bye,
bye without hurting their feelings.

You know, I was (still am) really in favor of women taking over th'
world. But you guys are just plain inadequate to complete th' various
tasks at hand. Put yer bra back on Laurie and go wash th' dishes.

Snarl

[Gunner]

Post by s***@trippin.net

Post by Laurie Forbes
A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.

So are we. This is a metal working ng, remember?
Perhaps you should ask Oprah or Dr. Phil how to make coyotes go bye,
bye without hurting their feelings.
You know, I was (still am) really in favor of women taking over th'
world. But you guys are just plain inadequate to complete th' various
tasks at hand. Put yer bra back on Laurie and go wash th' dishes.
Snarl

Im fascinated by the sheer numbers of touchy feelie types that when
confronted with the grim realities of life..go all atitter. One would
assume that they are the same type that assumes hamburger comes from a
factory in those little styrofoam trays, not a bawling shitting
terrified 1000 lb organism who is dragged onto a killing floor and
bashed with a slegehammer or electrocuted, then hoist by a high speed
crane, ripped open with a massive flood of guts and blood, then sliced
to bits with power saws..

Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[carl mciver]

"Gunner" <***@lightspeed.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

| Im fascinated by the sheer numbers of touchy feelie types that when
| confronted with the grim realities of life..go all atitter. One would
| assume that they are the same type that assumes hamburger comes from a
| factory in those little styrofoam trays, not a bawling shitting
| terrified 1000 lb organism who is dragged onto a killing floor and
| bashed with a slegehammer or electrocuted, then hoist by a high speed
| crane, ripped open with a massive flood of guts and blood, then sliced
| to bits with power saws..
|
| Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
| nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
| and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.
|
| Gunner

Well said, but I don't recall them fighting it. Cattle are too ignorant
to understand what's coming, unlike pigs which require a screen to prevent
them from seeing their future. As a fellow once described it, they blink
and its a new day.
I must admit that while I worked at a beef processing facility in Dallas
for awhile, the killing plant was out of the city limits, as required by
law, and only occasionally visited that plant to install and build equipment
and systems for it.

IIRC, there was no dragging or physical force required to move the
cattle along, especially when a cattle prod is involved.

[Steve B]

Post by Gunner
Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.
Gunner

I used to sell refrigeration systems. Some of our clients were
slaughterhouses.

Absolutely amazing. About five minutes from hoof to hanging half.

And the smell is quite peculiar.

I particularly liked the offal carts.

Steve

[Dave Hinz]

Post by Laurie Forbes
A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.
Thanks however to those few who provided intelligent responses to my
query.............

Translation: I already knew what I wanted to hear, and the rest of us
are just wrong.

[Ken Cutt]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Mothballs in a perforated tin can . Or Paradichlorobenzine(sp?) Anyway
they do not like the smell . Personally I am for shooting them but I
realize not everyone has a 220 Swift :-) . Luck
Ken Cutt

[~Roy]

Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.

<>> My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
<>> close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
<>> Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
<>> bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
<>>
<>> TIA for any suggestions............
<>>
<>> Laurie Forbes
<>>
<>>
<>Mothballs in a perforated tin can . Or Paradichlorobenzine(sp?) Anyway
<>they do not like the smell . Personally I am for shooting them but I
<>realize not everyone has a 220 Swift :-) . Luck
<>Ken Cutt

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Ken Cutt]

Post by ~Roy
Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.

You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
Ken Cutt

[Gunner]

Post by Ken Cutt

Post by ~Roy
Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.

You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
Ken Cutt

And the 'red mist" the Swift makes as its trademark tends to not
leave a wounded animal to crawl off and suffer.

Gunner, who has used the 22-250 with equal success on yodel dogs, or
the .243 in heavy barrel out past 400 meters when the .22 centerfires
run out of steam.



"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

[TCC Taking Care of Carol]

The 22-250 is certainly one of my most used guns as is my .223. I
just love the 22-250 for varmit catagory, into why coyotes fall.

<>
<>>> Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
<>>> as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
<>>> feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
<>>> is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
<>>> doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
<>>> kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
<>>> all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
<>>> and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
<>>> of pain.
<>>>
<>>
<>>You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
<>>as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
<>>a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
<>>a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
<>>and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
<>>gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
<>>. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
<>>Ken Cutt
<>
<>
<>And the 'red mist" the Swift makes as its trademark tends to not
<>leave a wounded animal to crawl off and suffer.
<>
<>Gunner, who has used the 22-250 with equal success on yodel dogs, or
<>the .243 in heavy barrel out past 400 meters when the .22 centerfires
<>run out of steam.
<>
<>
<>
<>"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
<>nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
<>personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
<>the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
<>defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
<>police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
<>of defense." --Walter Williams

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Ken Cutt]

Post by Gunner

Post by Ken Cutt

Post by ~Roy
Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.

You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
Ken Cutt

And the 'red mist" the Swift makes as its trademark tends to not
leave a wounded animal to crawl off and suffer.
Gunner, who has used the 22-250 with equal success on yodel dogs, or
the .243 in heavy barrel out past 400 meters when the .22 centerfires
run out of steam.

I really do love my Swift but if I were to do it over I would go for a
22-250 . Cheaper brass and a lot less throat erosion . I like the 243
but I decided for real long shots to use my 06 . I figured the extra
practice with it would only help my hunting as that was my main gun . I
can't say as it really helped as I have never yet made a 400 yard shot
at big game . Doubt I will now . To be honest I made very few 200 yard
shots while hunting big stuff .
Ken Cutt

[Diamond Jim]

Post by Laurie Forbes
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.
TIA for any suggestions............
Laurie Forbes

Get some Llamas, Karakachan Dog, a Great Pyrenees Dog, or a pair of
Greyhounds. If you use dogs you need big dogs like the Karakachan or Great
Pyrenees. A pair of greyhounds can kill coyotes because they will work
together and kill it on the run. A single coyote can often fight off a
single dog the size of a German Shepard, or Doberman. Don't get me wrong,
the German Shepard or Doberman are fearless enough to fight a coyote, and if
the coyote couldn't get away they would kill it, but they usually can't keep
it around long enough to kill it and if it runs, they can't catch it.

On my daughters farm, two Llamas protect pastures containing the adult herds
of sheep/goats and two Karakachan (Bulgarian Shepard Dogs) protect pastures
of the younger lambs and kids. The Llamas will spit and stomp on the
coyotes, wild dogs or anything else that comes around. The Llamas kill ratio
is about 1 out of 4. The two dogs just kill the intruders, without making
any fuss about it. Their ratio is about 4 out of 5. The dogs live with the
flocks 24/7 and never come inside. The advantage of Karakachan Dog's, over
the Great Pyrenees Mountain Dog's, is that the Karakachan's don't keep you
awake all night barking and making a lot of noise. By the way after the 1st
coyotes was killed by the dogs, they learned real quickly to avoid the farm.
But the stupid wild dogs don't learn and continue to die. They very seldom
have had any problems since getting the Llamas and Karakachans, other than
disposing of the dead wild dog.

Actually about œ of these wild dogs are pets that the owners just let run
loose, after all its not like they are in a city or anything. They post
notices on the wall at the local Wal-Mart of dogs that had been found on the
farm. When the owners call saying that's my dog they get asked how they want
to pay for the damage their pet did to the livestock, cash, check, or money
order. People don't visit the farm looking for their lost pets any more. ( I
suggested putting the dogs head on a pole beside the road but got voted
down.)

Also I understand that a adopting a pair of Greyhounds from the racetracks,
will solve a coyote problem fairly quickly too. In the early '60 I saw a
group of people hunting coyotes with greyhounds in the high desert around 29
Palms, Yucca Valley, Apple Valley Calif. They would load the pickups with
their greyhounds and take plenty of beer, and just drive around. Whenever
they saw a coyote they would let a few greyhounds out and watch them run the
coyote down and kill it. Just took a couple of minutes. Can't say I like
that method of hunting but what they did was legal at that time.

Oh yeah another advantage of the Karakachan's is they also kill the fox's
and leave the cotton tail rabbits alone. We have some great rabbit hunting
now.

[Gunner]

Post by Diamond Jim
Also I understand that a adopting a pair of Greyhounds from the racetracks,
will solve a coyote problem fairly quickly too. In the early '60 I saw a
group of people hunting coyotes with greyhounds in the high desert around 29
Palms, Yucca Valley, Apple Valley Calif. They would load the pickups with
their greyhounds and take plenty of beer, and just drive around. Whenever
they saw a coyote they would let a few greyhounds out and watch them run the
coyote down and kill it. Just took a couple of minutes. Can't say I like
that method of hunting but what they did was legal at that time.

Using greyhounds was pretty common in Nevada in the mid 70s, there
were a couple government hunters using them on coyotes around the Ely
and Currant Ranch area. They also used em on mountain lions. Course
around the cats, got em treed on a rock up up a bush and kept em there
till the hunter could deliver the coup de gras.

Btw...greyhounds, particularly those retired racing greyhounds make
pretty good pets, and are surprisingly good in apartments. So so
around small children but are great family dogs as the kids get past
the crawling stage.

Post by Diamond Jim
Oh yeah another advantage of the Karakachan's is they also kill the fox's
and leave the cotton tail rabbits alone. We have some great rabbit hunting
now.

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

[MikeMandaville]

Post by Diamond Jim
A pair of greyhounds can kill coyotes because they will work

together and kill it on the run.

I've seen how this works. The first greyhound will run the coyote into
a circle, while the second one rests. Then the second hound will take
over, while the first one rests. It becomes a relay race for the
hounds, while the coyote has to run twice as far, and so he will
eventually grow tired, and be taken down.