Discussion:
OT: USSC on Private Property
(too old to reply)
Dave
2005-06-23 18:07:23 UTC
Permalink
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Rex B
2005-06-23 19:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.

I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government
to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.

Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.

Rex Burkheimer
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Koz
2005-06-23 19:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of
government to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I
thought the Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Agreed. This is one where people should be screaming bloody murder.

Koz (who, by the way, is a pinko liberal commie "lefty" and still
believes that taking property like this is about as wrong as you can get)
Larry Jaques
2005-06-23 20:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Spinning is more like it.
Post by Rex B
Sad day for the average citizen.
Indeed.
Post by Rex B
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government
to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
As did I, but it was a 5-4 split decision. Y'know, something Shrub
might consider a "Mandate!"
Post by Rex B
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Excellent idea.


-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Gunner
2005-06-24 06:57:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:27:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Spinning is more like it.
Post by Rex B
Sad day for the average citizen.
Indeed.
Post by Rex B
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government
to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
As did I, but it was a 5-4 split decision. Y'know, something Shrub
might consider a "Mandate!"
Odd..it appears that the conservative judges were against it.

"The ruling drew a sharp dissent from Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who
warned that it will allow governments to seize any property simply to
allow developers to upgrade it. "Nothing is to prevent the state from
replacing any Motel 6 with a Ritz-Carlton, any home with a shopping
mall," said O'Connor, who was joined by Chief Justice William
Rehnquist and Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas in a dissent
that emphasized property owners' rights."
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Rex B
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Excellent idea.
And some people have been trying to block conservative judges as being
too radical.....

Snicker

Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Larry Jaques
2005-06-24 12:21:01 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:57:43 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:27:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Rex B
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government
to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
As did I, but it was a 5-4 split decision. Y'know, something Shrub
might consider a "Mandate!"
Odd..it appears that the conservative judges were against it.
My aim was at Shrub, not conservative justices. Scalia is my fave
justice.


-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Gunner
2005-06-24 15:09:22 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:21:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:57:43 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:27:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Rex B
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government
to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
As did I, but it was a 5-4 split decision. Y'know, something Shrub
might consider a "Mandate!"
Odd..it appears that the conservative judges were against it.
My aim was at Shrub, not conservative justices. Scalia is my fave
justice.
Given your somewhat left of center normal stance..I thought you would
be overjoyed that the Leftist judges ruled that the State can now void
your property rights in full.

Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Larry Jaques
2005-06-24 17:59:19 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:09:22 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:21:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
My aim was at Shrub, not conservative justices. Scalia is my fave
justice.
Given your somewhat left of center normal stance..I thought you would
be overjoyed that the Leftist judges ruled that the State can now void
your property rights in full.
My views are actually right of center and leaning toward the
libertarian side, not liberal.

If you weren't so chained to Shrub 'n the Reps, you'd see that.

You still haven't commented on the tees I sent to you...


-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Gunner
2005-06-25 05:09:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:59:19 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:09:22 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:21:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
My aim was at Shrub, not conservative justices. Scalia is my fave
justice.
Given your somewhat left of center normal stance..I thought you would
be overjoyed that the Leftist judges ruled that the State can now void
your property rights in full.
My views are actually right of center and leaning toward the
libertarian side, not liberal.
If you weren't so chained to Shrub 'n the Reps, you'd see that.
Chained to the Shrub? Hardly. Im a Republitarian. The issue is..while
Im not in all things enamored of Bush and Co. they far far far and
away are closer to that which I favor and believe, than the
competition. So Ive hitched my team to the wagon, and will continue
to do so until a better wagon comes along. The competitions wagon
tends to be a stone boat with the traces facing the wrong
direction..so they are a non starter.
Post by Larry Jaques
You still haven't commented on the tees I sent to you...
You sent those? I was trying to figure out who sent em. The wife
opened the package while I was on the road and tossed the packaging
before I got a chance to check out the sender. Not one of her better
days..change of meds...

Way cool and thanks!!

Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-25 13:23:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 05:09:14 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
If you weren't so chained to Shrub 'n the Reps, you'd see that.
Chained to the Shrub? Hardly. Im a Republitarian. The issue is..while
Im not in all things enamored of Bush and Co. they far far far and
I haven't seen you disagree with anything he's said or done yet, and
that's saying a LOT. <sigh>
Post by Gunner
away are closer to that which I favor and believe, than the
competition. So Ive hitched my team to the wagon, and will continue
to do so until a better wagon comes along. The competitions wagon
tends to be a stone boat with the traces facing the wrong
direction..so they are a non starter.
I can't, in good conscience, hitch up to either of the two most
corrupt parties in existence. It sickens me that our great country
has fallen to such depths. There's less morality in the Moral
Majority/Christian Coalition/Repugnican party than in the Stone
Boaters. Oy vay! It's time to totally remake BOTH wagons, hmm?
Post by Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
You still haven't commented on the tees I sent to you...
You sent those? I was trying to figure out who sent em. The wife
opened the package while I was on the road and tossed the packaging
before I got a chance to check out the sender. Not one of her better
days..change of meds...
Way cool and thanks!!
Jewelcome. I figured you'd catch on to the DIVERSIFY copyright sooner
or later. <giggle>


-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Gunner
2005-06-25 20:30:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:23:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 05:09:14 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
If you weren't so chained to Shrub 'n the Reps, you'd see that.
Chained to the Shrub? Hardly. Im a Republitarian. The issue is..while
Im not in all things enamored of Bush and Co. they far far far and
I haven't seen you disagree with anything he's said or done yet, and
that's saying a LOT. <sigh>
When arguing with the competition..the hardcore Leftists that pop up
their heads occasionally like WackAMoles..why give them any ammo?
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
away are closer to that which I favor and believe, than the
competition. So Ive hitched my team to the wagon, and will continue
to do so until a better wagon comes along. The competitions wagon
tends to be a stone boat with the traces facing the wrong
direction..so they are a non starter.
I can't, in good conscience, hitch up to either of the two most
corrupt parties in existence. It sickens me that our great country
has fallen to such depths. There's less morality in the Moral
Majority/Christian Coalition/Repugnican party than in the Stone
Boaters. Oy vay! It's time to totally remake BOTH wagons, hmm?
Frankly..I dont believe that either party is as corrupt as you claim.
In fact..I rather think that both are relatively squeaky clean, all
things considered. Though I AM a student of history and am fully aware
of other administrations in US history that evidently you are not
informed about. There is far far too much media coverage these days
to allow any sort of major shenanigans to go on on the scale of Tamany
Hall and other similar political escapades in US history. Local
government..thats another story..but then...in US history..having the
mayor of a major US city being a two time convicted drug addict in
office is small fish. I need only mention the name Daley for a single
shining example.

I hold the political stances of the Left in contempt, not because they
are any more corrupt than any other..but because of the content and
agenda of their politics..and the way they attempt to carry them out.
If you consider lies, diversion, misdirection, demonization,
marginalization and balkanization to be corruption..then yes..the Left
is corrupt.

But I consider corruption to be things like governors of Arkansas
being a major figure in drug distribution and such to be
corruption....shrug.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
You still haven't commented on the tees I sent to you...
You sent those? I was trying to figure out who sent em. The wife
opened the package while I was on the road and tossed the packaging
before I got a chance to check out the sender. Not one of her better
days..change of meds...
Way cool and thanks!!
Jewelcome. I figured you'd catch on to the DIVERSIFY copyright sooner
or later. <giggle>
<G>

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-25 21:26:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:30:58 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:23:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
I can't, in good conscience, hitch up to either of the two most
corrupt parties in existence. It sickens me that our great country
has fallen to such depths. There's less morality in the Moral
Majority/Christian Coalition/Repugnican party than in the Stone
Boaters. Oy vay! It's time to totally remake BOTH wagons, hmm?
Frankly..I dont believe that either party is as corrupt as you claim.
Do the terms/names "pork barrel", "vote buying", "bribery", Mayor
Marion Berry, Hillary/Bill Clinton, DeLay, Nixon, Halliburton, Willie
Brown, Frist, Traficant, etc. ring any bells? Are the American people
NOT being screwed/defrauded/lied-to by the government?
Post by Gunner
In fact..I rather think that both are relatively squeaky clean, all
things considered. Though I AM a student of history and am fully aware
of other administrations in US history that evidently you are not
informed about. There is far far too much media coverage these days
to allow any sort of major shenanigans to go on on the scale of Tamany
Hall and other similar political escapades in US history.
The Clintons got away with Whitewater, didn't they?
Post by Gunner
Local government..thats another story..but then...in US history..having the
mayor of a major US city being a two time convicted drug addict in
office is small fish. I need only mention the name Daley for a single
shining example.
Add Marion "White-nosed" Berry.
Post by Gunner
I hold the political stances of the Left in contempt, not because they
are any more corrupt than any other..but because of the content and
agenda of their politics..and the way they attempt to carry them out.
If you consider lies, diversion, misdirection, demonization,
marginalization and balkanization to be corruption..then yes..the Left
is corrupt.
Agreed, but if you think all that's restricted to the left side of the
aisle, you've got might big blinders on, dude.
Post by Gunner
But I consider corruption to be things like governors of Arkansas
being a major figure in drug distribution and such to be
corruption....shrug.
I grew up in Arkansas under the earlier corrupt governor, Faubus.
Wouldn't you agree that our lawmakers shouldn't be breaking any of
our laws themselves? What do you call that, if not corruption, when
they're -continually- caught in one scandal or another? Don't fraud,
bribery, accepting bribes, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, drunk
driving, assault, and rape count as corruption, too? Why does Congress
have a term "censure" if not to handle minor member antics?

I recently saw a list of about 500 indictments against our governing
officials. I wish I could remember where I saw that and point out the
URL for you.

Here are some others, though:

http://www.larryelder.com/congress/congresscrooks.htm
http://www.defraudingamerica.com/congressional_corruption.html
http://www.trueconspiracies.com/politics.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/15/senate.ford.ap/?section=cnn_allpolitics


-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Gunner
2005-06-26 06:37:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:26:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:30:58 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:23:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
I can't, in good conscience, hitch up to either of the two most
corrupt parties in existence. It sickens me that our great country
has fallen to such depths. There's less morality in the Moral
Majority/Christian Coalition/Repugnican party than in the Stone
Boaters. Oy vay! It's time to totally remake BOTH wagons, hmm?
Frankly..I dont believe that either party is as corrupt as you claim.
Do the terms/names "pork barrel", "vote buying", "bribery", Mayor
Marion Berry, Hillary/Bill Clinton, DeLay, Nixon, Halliburton, Willie
Brown, Frist, Traficant, etc. ring any bells? Are the American people
NOT being screwed/defrauded/lied-to by the government?
Of course they are. But at the same time..given an in depth look at
the politicians in American history...for the most part..small
potatos.

Btw, you included Halliburton and its being demonized for no good
reason.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/richlowry/rl20030918.shtml
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15426
"t is certainly true that during a two year period Halliburton’s
revenue from Defense Department contracts doubled. However, that
increase in revenue occurred from 1998 to 2000 - during the Clinton
administration."

Care to discuss Boss Tweed, or railroads, or strike breakers, or
business trusts. Or even Daley?
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
In fact..I rather think that both are relatively squeaky clean, all
things considered. Though I AM a student of history and am fully aware
of other administrations in US history that evidently you are not
informed about. There is far far too much media coverage these days
to allow any sort of major shenanigans to go on on the scale of Tamany
Hall and other similar political escapades in US history.
The Clintons got away with Whitewater, didn't they?
And far more than simply Whitewater. But it wasnt because of the lack
of trying. Political ass covering by the Left kept them free.
Remember Packwood? If you will take a clear and unbiased look at who
fucked up, and which party cleaned up their own miscreants..is sure
wont be Democrats. Btw..where is Gingrich these days? And who
forced him to resign? Sure wasnt the Left. So..where is Hillary
these days?
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Local government..thats another story..but then...in US history..having the
mayor of a major US city being a two time convicted drug addict in
office is small fish. I need only mention the name Daley for a single
shining example.
Add Marion "White-nosed" Berry.
He is a piker compared to Huey Long. or even Bill Clinton, or a host
of others.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
I hold the political stances of the Left in contempt, not because they
are any more corrupt than any other..but because of the content and
agenda of their politics..and the way they attempt to carry them out.
If you consider lies, diversion, misdirection, demonization,
marginalization and balkanization to be corruption..then yes..the Left
is corrupt.
Agreed, but if you think all that's restricted to the left side of the
aisle, you've got might big blinders on, dude.
Restricted? No. But where is the majority of the bad people? On the
Left. When a conservative fucks up..the Right gets him out of office.
When a Leftist fucks up, the Left glorifies him.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
But I consider corruption to be things like governors of Arkansas
being a major figure in drug distribution and such to be
corruption....shrug.
I grew up in Arkansas under the earlier corrupt governor, Faubus.
Wouldn't you agree that our lawmakers shouldn't be breaking any of
our laws themselves? What do you call that, if not corruption, when
they're -continually- caught in one scandal or another? Don't fraud,
bribery, accepting bribes, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, drunk
driving, assault, and rape count as corruption, too? Why does Congress
have a term "censure" if not to handle minor member antics?
Of course they do and of course its corruption. But if you look at
history..the players today are pikers for the most part.

Remember Bobby Baker? Billy Soestes? KoreaGate? Amscam? House Banking
Scandal?

Are you aware that Arron Burr tried to set himself up as Emporer of
the Southwest?
James Wilkenson?
Boss Tweed?
Simon Cameron
Gould and Fisk?
Post by Larry Jaques
I recently saw a list of about 500 indictments against our governing
officials. I wish I could remember where I saw that and point out the
URL for you.
http://www.larryelder.com/congress/congresscrooks.htm
http://www.defraudingamerica.com/congressional_corruption.html
http://www.trueconspiracies.com/politics.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/15/senate.ford.ap/?section=cnn_allpolitics
Ayup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_scandals_of_the_United_States
http://www.enotes.com/political-scandals/44814


Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-26 13:18:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:37:34 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Btw, you included Halliburton and its being demonized for no good
reason.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/richlowry/rl20030918.shtml
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15426
"t is certainly true that during a two year period Halliburton’s
revenue from Defense Department contracts doubled. However, that
increase in revenue occurred from 1998 to 2000 - during the Clinton
administration."
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you? Isn't that stretching ethics a bit much? Yes, I know the Left
has stretched facts way out of proportion (They and the Right always
do), but Halliburton is no group of angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton brings up bribery in their
immediate past, too.
Post by Gunner
Care to discuss Boss Tweed, or railroads, or strike breakers, or
business trusts. Or even Daley?
Tweed and Daley are known bad guys (and Dems.) What about the rest?
Pray continue.
Post by Gunner
Restricted? No. But where is the majority of the bad people? On the
Left. When a conservative fucks up..the Right gets him out of office.
When a Leftist fucks up, the Left glorifies him.
Do they? ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_administration_payment_of_columnists

Oh, your link to FrontPage Mag led me here. I think you'll enjoy the
Diversity and ATF tees the most. http://www.thoseshirts.com/ I really
enjoy the model for the ATF tee, too. Schwinnng!
http://www.thoseshirts.com/atf.html

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
jim rozen
2005-06-26 16:57:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Jaques
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you?
Not at all. Halliburton paid a darn lot of money into the
dweeb's campaign and they sure deserve to get something out
of their investment.

And it's so *nice* to see that gunner is taking time out
of his busy schedule to provide free public realations
support for the besieged folks at Haliburton.

Jim
--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================
Larry Jaques
2005-06-26 17:54:13 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Jun 2005 09:57:14 -0700, the opaque jim rozen
Post by jim rozen
Post by Larry Jaques
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you?
Not at all. Halliburton paid a darn lot of money into the
dweeb's campaign and they sure deserve to get something out
of their investment.
And it's so *nice* to see that gunner is taking time out
of his busy schedule to provide free public realations
support for the besieged folks at Haliburton.
I know it was extremely easy to see that the faceiousity factor
was 100% in that reply, Jim, but should you have included a smiley
at the end for those who are politically and/or humorously challenged?

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
jim rozen
2005-06-26 20:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Jaques
I know it was extremely easy to see that the faceiousity factor
was 100% in that reply,...
Hmm, FF. I sorta like that. Thank you!

Jim
--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================
Larry Jaques
2005-06-26 22:47:53 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Jun 2005 13:31:26 -0700, the opaque jim rozen
Post by jim rozen
Post by Larry Jaques
I know it was extremely easy to see that the faceiousity factor
was 100% in that reply,...
Hmm, FF. I sorta like that. Thank you!
Well, it was supposed to be spelled "facetiousity factor" but
my "t" got waylayed somewhere between brain and keyboard.

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
Gunner
2005-06-26 18:21:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:18:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:37:34 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Btw, you included Halliburton and its being demonized for no good
reason.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/richlowry/rl20030918.shtml
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15426
"t is certainly true that during a two year period Halliburton’s
revenue from Defense Department contracts doubled. However, that
increase in revenue occurred from 1998 to 2000 - during the Clinton
administration."
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you? Isn't that stretching ethics a bit much? Yes, I know the Left
has stretched facts way out of proportion (They and the Right always
do), but Halliburton is no group of angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton brings up bribery in their
immediate past, too.
Actually no..it doesnt bother me either that when the bus crashed out
on the freeway, the local ambulance company made a pile of money.
They of course were the only people around who could do the job in the
time necessary.
Perhaps you think Joe-Bobs Construction should have gotten the
contract? If not..please explain why. And please explain why it would
be prefered that it take 3 yrs of bidding and vetting to do a job that
needs doing NOW.

My Dad has lots of Halliburton stock. This means he was advocating the
war in Iraq? I see you are also claiming Bush/Chaney are responsible
for Bosnia. Interesting.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Care to discuss Boss Tweed, or railroads, or strike breakers, or
business trusts. Or even Daley?
Tweed and Daley are known bad guys (and Dems.) What about the rest?
Pray continue.
Google is your friend. Its not my goal to be your history teacher.
That should have been handled by now by either yourself or others.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Restricted? No. But where is the majority of the bad people? On the
Left. When a conservative fucks up..the Right gets him out of office.
When a Leftist fucks up, the Left glorifies him.
Do they? ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_administration_payment_of_columnists
Yes and?
http://www.libfibs.com/

Btw...what does that have to do with the topic? Its bad when the Right
does it, but its ok when the Left does it? Interesting
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1099ent.htm

I suppose the Right could follow the well established lead of the
Left, and pay for votes with booze, cigarettes and cocaine.
Post by Larry Jaques
Oh, your link to FrontPage Mag led me here. I think you'll enjoy the
Diversity and ATF tees the most. http://www.thoseshirts.com/ I really
enjoy the model for the ATF tee, too. Schwinnng!
http://www.thoseshirts.com/atf.html
YUMMMMY!!

Btw...you may enjoy this photographer/philosphers take on the subject

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/guncontrol.html
http://www.a-human-right.com/introduction.html
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/arms
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/effective.html

Some of my personal favorites:
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/arms/freedom
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/arms/22vs45_2


Or these T-shirts

http://www.libertyoutlet.com/store/bystore.html?store=3

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-26 23:19:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:21:08 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:18:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you? Isn't that stretching ethics a bit much? Yes, I know the Left
has stretched facts way out of proportion (They and the Right always
do), but Halliburton is no group of angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton brings up bribery in their
immediate past, too.
Actually no..it doesnt bother me either that when the bus crashed out
on the freeway, the local ambulance company made a pile of money.
They of course were the only people around who could do the job in the
time necessary.
I believe there were 3 or 4 companies capable at the time.
Post by Gunner
Perhaps you think Joe-Bobs Construction should have gotten the
contract? If not..please explain why. And please explain why it would
be prefered that it take 3 yrs of bidding and vetting to do a job that
needs doing NOW.
Nope. Joe-Bob is afraid of flying.
Post by Gunner
My Dad has lots of Halliburton stock. This means he was advocating the
war in Iraq? I see you are also claiming Bush/Chaney are responsible
for Bosnia. Interesting.
Please raise or lower your meds accordingly so you'll be able to point
out where I said squat about _Bosnia_.
Post by Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Care to discuss Boss Tweed, or railroads, or strike breakers, or
business trusts. Or even Daley?
Tweed and Daley are known bad guys (and Dems.) What about the rest?
Pray continue.
Google is your friend. Its not my goal to be your history teacher.
That should have been handled by now by either yourself or others.
OK, I'll Google whatever reference you point to. "Railroads" is a bit
wide in scope. Did you have something more specific in mind? <:(
Post by Gunner
Btw...you may enjoy this photographer/philosphers take on the subject
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/guncontrol.html
Yes. This one from that link was great:
Loading Image...
Post by Gunner
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/arms/22vs45_2
Good.

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
Gunner
2005-06-27 04:51:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:19:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:21:08 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:18:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you? Isn't that stretching ethics a bit much? Yes, I know the Left
has stretched facts way out of proportion (They and the Right always
do), but Halliburton is no group of angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton brings up bribery in their
immediate past, too.
Actually no..it doesnt bother me either that when the bus crashed out
on the freeway, the local ambulance company made a pile of money.
They of course were the only people around who could do the job in the
time necessary.
I believe there were 3 or 4 companies capable at the time.
Please provide their names and what their capabilities were.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Perhaps you think Joe-Bobs Construction should have gotten the
contract? If not..please explain why. And please explain why it would
be prefered that it take 3 yrs of bidding and vetting to do a job that
needs doing NOW.
Nope. Joe-Bob is afraid of flying.
Post by Gunner
My Dad has lots of Halliburton stock. This means he was advocating the
war in Iraq? I see you are also claiming Bush/Chaney are responsible
for Bosnia. Interesting.
Please raise or lower your meds accordingly so you'll be able to point
out where I said squat about _Bosnia_.
You didnt read the piece about it being true that Halliburton Doubled
their revenues working for the DOD? They did indeed. In Bosnia for
Clinton, and for the same reason they were picked for the
Sandbox..experience, infrastructure and ability. So if they were in
bed with Cheney for the Sandbox..obviously they were in bed with
Cheney in Bosnia..IE Bosnia was Bush/Cheneys fault.
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Care to discuss Boss Tweed, or railroads, or strike breakers, or
business trusts. Or even Daley?
Tweed and Daley are known bad guys (and Dems.) What about the rest?
Pray continue.
Google is your friend. Its not my goal to be your history teacher.
That should have been handled by now by either yourself or others.
OK, I'll Google whatever reference you point to. "Railroads" is a bit
wide in scope. Did you have something more specific in mind? <:(
Ill give you a google point...

Crédit Mobilier

After reading this..Im sure you will be able to find other examples.

Ill toss in this link for your unasked union research

http://www.providence.edu/polisci/students/labor/labor_timeline_1806-present.htm
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Btw...you may enjoy this photographer/philosphers take on the subject
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/guncontrol.html
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Post by Gunner
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/arms/22vs45_2
Good.
-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-27 13:03:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 04:51:32 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:19:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:21:08 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:18:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you? Isn't that stretching ethics a bit much? Yes, I know the Left
has stretched facts way out of proportion (They and the Right always
do), but Halliburton is no group of angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton brings up bribery in their
immediate past, too.
Actually no..it doesnt bother me either that when the bus crashed out
on the freeway, the local ambulance company made a pile of money.
They of course were the only people around who could do the job in the
time necessary.
I believe there were 3 or 4 companies capable at the time.
Please provide their names and what their capabilities were.
Heh heh heh. Isn't this where I say "Turnabout is fair play."
and refer YOU to Google, saying "It's not my goal to be your
history teacher"? <bseg>

Let's see, as I recall, I read that capable Iraqi and French
companies were ruled out for political reasons. Where did I
see that? I believe it was my local paper.

This is the closest I got in 20 minutes of Googling this morning,
but they say they can't reveal companies or countries involved.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/iraq/faq.htm 6 companies gave
proposals.
Post by Gunner
Ill give you a google point...
Crédit Mobilier
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Post by Gunner
After reading this..Im sure you will be able to find other examples.
Ill toss in this link for your unasked union research
http://www.providence.edu/polisci/students/labor/labor_timeline_1806-present.htm
It makes me glad I live in this age, not the last. You?

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
Gunner
2005-06-27 15:57:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:03:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 04:51:32 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:19:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:21:08 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:18:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
The fact that our V.P., Cheney, still has LOTS of Halliburton stock
and that they got the no-bid contract doesn't seem a bit strange to
you? Isn't that stretching ethics a bit much? Yes, I know the Left
has stretched facts way out of proportion (They and the Right always
do), but Halliburton is no group of angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton brings up bribery in their
immediate past, too.
Actually no..it doesnt bother me either that when the bus crashed out
on the freeway, the local ambulance company made a pile of money.
They of course were the only people around who could do the job in the
time necessary.
I believe there were 3 or 4 companies capable at the time.
Please provide their names and what their capabilities were.
Heh heh heh. Isn't this where I say "Turnabout is fair play."
and refer YOU to Google, saying "It's not my goal to be your
history teacher"? <bseg>
Let's see, as I recall, I read that capable Iraqi and French
companies were ruled out for political reasons. Where did I
see that? I believe it was my local paper.
This is the closest I got in 20 minutes of Googling this morning,
but they say they can't reveal companies or countries involved.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/iraq/faq.htm 6 companies gave
proposals.
Gave proposals. Indeed. Now how long would the wrangling and then the
build up have taken? Halliburton, wether you like it or not...had the
capability to be on the ground NOW, and with vast experience. See my
comment on ambulence. Would you care to wait for the lowest bidder to
set up shop in your area, and then respond to your accident?

This one may help resolve your confusion:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15426


http://www.prisonplanet.com/contracts_to_rebuild_iraq_go_to_chosen_few.html
http://www.theabsurdreport.com/id112.html
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Ill give you a google point...
Crédit Mobilier
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Post by Gunner
After reading this..Im sure you will be able to find other examples.
Ill toss in this link for your unasked union research
http://www.providence.edu/polisci/students/labor/labor_timeline_1806-present.htm
It makes me glad I live in this age, not the last. You?
Indeed.


Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Ned Simmons
2005-06-27 17:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:03:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
This is the closest I got in 20 minutes of Googling this morning,
but they say they can't reveal companies or countries involved.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/iraq/faq.htm 6 companies gave
proposals.
Gave proposals. Indeed. Now how long would the wrangling and then the
build up have taken? Halliburton, wether you like it or not...had the
capability to be on the ground NOW, and with vast experience. See my
comment on ambulence. Would you care to wait for the lowest bidder to
set up shop in your area, and then respond to your accident?
Specious analogy. There was (allegedly) a plan for the
invasion of Iraq - it was not an accident. A better analogy
would be shopping for insurance to cover a forseeable risk
some months in the future.

Ned Simmons
Rex B
2005-06-27 17:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:03:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
This is the closest I got in 20 minutes of Googling this morning,
but they say they can't reveal companies or countries involved.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/iraq/faq.htm 6 companies gave
proposals.
Gave proposals. Indeed. Now how long would the wrangling and then the
build up have taken? Halliburton, wether you like it or not...had the
capability to be on the ground NOW, and with vast experience. See my
comment on ambulence. Would you care to wait for the lowest bidder to
set up shop in your area, and then respond to your accident?
Specious analogy. There was (allegedly) a plan for the
invasion of Iraq - it was not an accident. A better analogy
would be shopping for insurance to cover a forseeable risk
some months in the future.
Ned Simmons
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it. Where the usual protocol is to invite bids,
evaluate the bids, award the bids based on $ and expectations that they
winning bidder would be able to live up to the contract, implement the
contract, evaluate results. In this case, there was only one bidder
able to do the job in the timeframe available, so we had to go with what
we had, even with the inevitable political baggage.
As for the close relationship over time between our country's
leaders and one of the most successful companies in the world, all I can
tell you is that winners tend to associate with winners, less so with
losers.
Ned Simmons
2005-06-27 18:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:03:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
This is the closest I got in 20 minutes of Googling this morning,
but they say they can't reveal companies or countries involved.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/iraq/faq.htm 6 companies gave
proposals.
Gave proposals. Indeed. Now how long would the wrangling and then the
build up have taken? Halliburton, wether you like it or not...had the
capability to be on the ground NOW, and with vast experience. See my
comment on ambulence. Would you care to wait for the lowest bidder to
set up shop in your area, and then respond to your accident?
Specious analogy. There was (allegedly) a plan for the
invasion of Iraq - it was not an accident. A better analogy
would be shopping for insurance to cover a forseeable risk
some months in the future.
Ned Simmons
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.

Ned Simmons
Gunner
2005-06-27 20:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Rex B
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the
administration was lying etc etc....

Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Ned Simmons
2005-06-27 22:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Rex B
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the
administration was lying etc etc....
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..
Nice try, Gunner. You justify the selection of Halliburton
with sloppy logic so now you want me to express my opinion
on something I haven't claimed to know anything about.
Maybe Halliburton *is* the best outfit for the job, but
you're not going to convince me with your faulty ambulance
analogy.

Ned Simmons
Koz
2005-06-27 22:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Rex B
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the
administration was lying etc etc....
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..
Nice try, Gunner. You justify the selection of Halliburton
with sloppy logic so now you want me to express my opinion
on something I haven't claimed to know anything about.
Maybe Halliburton *is* the best outfit for the job, but
you're not going to convince me with your faulty ambulance
analogy.
Ned Simmons
The key word is MAYBE. Yes, they are big and might be the best able to
do the job but there was never opportunity to find out if that is true.
Also there was never opportunity to find out if the settled price was
fair open-market pricing.

For many of the functions that Halliburton performs, it was a little
like going to Boeing and asking for a special spring..yea, Boeing can do
it but there are also 1000 other companies that could have done that
same spring better, cheaper and faster. A prime example of this in the
Halliburton contract is the catering, laundry and similar functions.
There are comanies in place that could have done this better but were
not given the opportunity as it was rolled into a larger contract.

The list Gunner asks about? Try any number of food service people who
already contract to feed the large bases (H.E. Butt in TX for example),
same with laundry services *IF* the contract wasn't intentionally rolled
into a massive package. Do you contract with your grocery store to
supply all your machining needs simply because it's easier to let them
worry about/ they're big enough to know where to get it? Of course not,
that would be stupid..you'd pay far too much and be far too limitied by
that system.

We'll never know if Halliburton was or was not the best choice as even
when the "emergency" passed and it could have gone out to proper
bidding, they just renewed the contract.

Koz
Gunner
2005-06-28 05:35:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:44:18 -0700, Koz
Post by Koz
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Rex B
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the
administration was lying etc etc....
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..
Nice try, Gunner. You justify the selection of Halliburton
with sloppy logic so now you want me to express my opinion
on something I haven't claimed to know anything about.
Maybe Halliburton *is* the best outfit for the job, but
you're not going to convince me with your faulty ambulance
analogy.
Ned Simmons
The key word is MAYBE. Yes, they are big and might be the best able to
do the job but there was never opportunity to find out if that is true.
Also there was never opportunity to find out if the settled price was
fair open-market pricing.
For many of the functions that Halliburton performs, it was a little
like going to Boeing and asking for a special spring..yea, Boeing can do
it but there are also 1000 other companies that could have done that
same spring better, cheaper and faster. A prime example of this in the
Halliburton contract is the catering, laundry and similar functions.
There are comanies in place that could have done this better but were
not given the opportunity as it was rolled into a larger contract.
The list Gunner asks about? Try any number of food service people who
already contract to feed the large bases (H.E. Butt in TX for example),
same with laundry services *IF* the contract wasn't intentionally rolled
into a massive package. Do you contract with your grocery store to
supply all your machining needs simply because it's easier to let them
worry about/ they're big enough to know where to get it? Of course not,
that would be stupid..you'd pay far too much and be far too limitied by
that system.
We'll never know if Halliburton was or was not the best choice as even
when the "emergency" passed and it could have gone out to proper
bidding, they just renewed the contract.
Koz
Are you also claiming that a Bush were the reson the Clintons used
Halliburton in Bosnia?

Seems others here are avoiding that particular issue....

And of course, you all are aware that it was not a New contract, but
an expansion of an existing one, are you not?

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Koz
2005-06-28 18:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:44:18 -0700, Koz
Post by Koz
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Rex B
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the
administration was lying etc etc....
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..
Nice try, Gunner. You justify the selection of Halliburton
with sloppy logic so now you want me to express my opinion
on something I haven't claimed to know anything about.
Maybe Halliburton *is* the best outfit for the job, but
you're not going to convince me with your faulty ambulance
analogy.
Ned Simmons
The key word is MAYBE. Yes, they are big and might be the best able to
do the job but there was never opportunity to find out if that is true.
Also there was never opportunity to find out if the settled price was
fair open-market pricing.
For many of the functions that Halliburton performs, it was a little
like going to Boeing and asking for a special spring..yea, Boeing can do
it but there are also 1000 other companies that could have done that
same spring better, cheaper and faster. A prime example of this in the
Halliburton contract is the catering, laundry and similar functions.
There are comanies in place that could have done this better but were
not given the opportunity as it was rolled into a larger contract.
The list Gunner asks about? Try any number of food service people who
already contract to feed the large bases (H.E. Butt in TX for example),
same with laundry services *IF* the contract wasn't intentionally rolled
into a massive package. Do you contract with your grocery store to
supply all your machining needs simply because it's easier to let them
worry about/ they're big enough to know where to get it? Of course not,
that would be stupid..you'd pay far too much and be far too limitied by
that system.
We'll never know if Halliburton was or was not the best choice as even
when the "emergency" passed and it could have gone out to proper
bidding, they just renewed the contract.
Koz
Are you also claiming that a Bush were the reson the Clintons used
Halliburton in Bosnia?
Seems others here are avoiding that particular issue....
And of course, you all are aware that it was not a New contract, but
an expansion of an existing one, are you not?
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Nope, the only thing I claim is that in the rush to get something done,
the path taken in awarding no-bid, single source contracts may not be
the best either in value or in result. Halliburton is BIG and in haste,
may have been the ones ready to dive in. However, at the very least,
some portions of those contracts should have been scrutinized by this
point and other bidders should be involved by now, simply to keep things
honest. The other problem is that much of what Halliburton was able to
do because they were considered "big" was supplied by the gov (took over
existing operations). Even smaller bidders may have been able to get
their fingers in as simply taking over something already situated
doesn't require massive mobilization.

It also seems that some of the soldiers in support positions are getting
very disgruntled because the civvy doing the same job as they are is
making 2-300K a year for it. The haste to give the appearence of
getting stuff done appears to be a very poor value at this point.

When your house floods, you pay whatever you need to stabilize the
situation...THEN you go looking for bids/value in the actual rebuilding.
It's long past time to be checking out contractors instead of having
the stabilization team charge premium rates for simple things.



Koz
Gunner
2005-06-29 11:29:40 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:10:48 -0700, Koz
Post by Koz
It also seems that some of the soldiers in support positions are getting
very disgruntled because the civvy doing the same job as they are is
making 2-300K a year for it. The haste to give the appearence of
getting stuff done appears to be a very poor value at this point.
Lots of those guys make real money in the outside world as IT pros,
pilots and so forth. So this is not particularly unusual, nor has it
been for many many years.
Post by Koz
When your house floods, you pay whatever you need to stabilize the
situation...THEN you go looking for bids/value in the actual rebuilding.
It's long past time to be checking out contractors instead of having
the stabilization team charge premium rates for simple things.
I wonder what the learning curve will be, again and again as the
various contractors come and go with their contracts.

Can we afford that sort of time?

Also, Im reminded of the numbers of Halliburton people who have been
killed to date. I wonder if Joe's Transport Co. will figure that into
the bid?

But you are correct. Perhaps it is time to put things out for bid. Now
how long again is the bidding process for government services that
normally go out to bid?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Larry Jaques
2005-06-29 13:13:49 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:29:40 GMT, the opaque Gunner
<***@lightspeed.net> spake:
-snip-

This just in:

http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostliberty2.html

- This product cruelly tested on defenseless furry animals -
--------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Web App & Database Programming
jim rozen
2005-06-29 13:45:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
But you are correct. Perhaps it is time to put things out for bid. Now
how long again is the bidding process for government services that
normally go out to bid?
I don't think that's a real problem, Gunner.
Rumsfeld himself said the things going to be
going on for 12 years or so. We are, and have
been, in this situation for a very, very
long haul. They may well put 'things' out
for open bids many times before it's finally
done.

Now getting back to the original topic here,
who was it that said that NH is planning on
appropriating Steven's property there to build
a brand new hotel?

Lots of tax reveue in that, eh?

<g>

Jim
--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================
Gunner
2005-06-28 04:52:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..
Nice try, Gunner. You justify the selection of Halliburton
with sloppy logic so now you want me to express my opinion
on something I haven't claimed to know anything about.
Maybe Halliburton *is* the best outfit for the job, but
you're not going to convince me with your faulty ambulance
analogy.
Ned Simmons
Thats pretty much up to you sir.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Ed Rinehart
2005-06-28 15:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Rex B
Except it was not a risk, it was an event that WOULD occur, and needed
someone to cover it.
True, if you accept that the administration was misleading
us and was determined to invade while pretending to be
diplomatic. In which case they had even more time to
explore alternatives to Halliburton. None of which improves
the ambulance analogy.
Ned Simmons
On the other hand..those of us who DO NOT accept that the
administration was lying etc etc....
Im still waiting for a list of companies who could provide
Halliburtons services btw..
Gunner
Well--maybe Schlumberger _could_have. (BSEG)

Ed R. (tounge glued to cheek)
Post by Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Gunner
2005-06-27 18:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Simmons
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:03:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
This is the closest I got in 20 minutes of Googling this morning,
but they say they can't reveal companies or countries involved.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/iraq/faq.htm 6 companies gave
proposals.
Gave proposals. Indeed. Now how long would the wrangling and then the
build up have taken? Halliburton, wether you like it or not...had the
capability to be on the ground NOW, and with vast experience. See my
comment on ambulence. Would you care to wait for the lowest bidder to
set up shop in your area, and then respond to your accident?
Specious analogy. There was (allegedly) a plan for the
invasion of Iraq - it was not an accident. A better analogy
would be shopping for insurance to cover a forseeable risk
some months in the future.
Ned Simmons
Care to take a wack at which companies could do the job?

Please be specific.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
JohnM
2005-06-27 10:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Jaques
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Somebody get that girl a sling..
Gunner
2005-06-27 15:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnM
Post by Larry Jaques
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Somebody get that girl a sling..
Or at least tape the swivels down.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-27 16:50:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:58:47 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Post by JohnM
Post by Larry Jaques
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Somebody get that girl a sling..
Or at least tape the swivels down.
Right. We don't want her dangly things making noise
out in the bush, now do we?

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
Gunner
2005-06-27 17:01:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:50:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:58:47 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Post by JohnM
Post by Larry Jaques
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Somebody get that girl a sling..
Or at least tape the swivels down.
Right. We don't want her dangly things making noise
out in the bush, now do we?
Or snagging on things.

Gunner
Post by Larry Jaques
-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Larry Jaques
2005-06-27 20:17:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:01:34 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:50:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
Post by Larry Jaques
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:58:47 GMT, the opaque Gunner
Post by Gunner
Post by JohnM
Somebody get that girl a sling..
Or at least tape the swivels down.
Right. We don't want her dangly things making noise
out in the bush, now do we?
Or snagging on things.
Ever since listening to Dodger describe how to survive a LRRP mission
on an episode of China Beach twenty odd years ago, I have been aware
of the need to quiet ALL the rattles on a commando's gear. I watch
the SWAT teams, cops, and soldiers in movies go into battle, making
enough noise TO KEEP THE WOLVES AWAKE, and wonder why nobody ever told
them why they got picked off so often. Why haven't the writers and
producers ever grokked that?

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming
Rex B
2005-06-27 18:38:33 UTC
Permalink
http://www.petitiononline.com/lp001/petition.html
- -
Cliff
2005-06-28 18:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Rex B
http://www.petitiononline.com/lp001/petition.html
- -
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
What do you have against private property?
Making a profit?
Conservative judges?
You LIKE big governments that spend lots of
your money and grab power anyway .... and lie to you
to start wars ..
--
Cliff
JohnM
2005-06-28 12:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by JohnM
Post by Larry Jaques
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Somebody get that girl a sling..
Or at least tape the swivels down.
I meant a combat sling. Probly shoulda been more specific..
Post by Gunner
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Don Bruder
2005-06-27 19:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Jaques
Post by Gunner
Btw...you may enjoy this photographer/philosphers take on the subject
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/guncontrol.html
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/molonlave_s.jpg
Oh yeah...

You want mine? You're welcome to it.
Like the poster says - come and get it.


(Proudly numbering myself amongst the mentioned 80M. Even though the
artillery isn't quite so... Ermm... Well, "Militaristic" in appearance,
the attitude and the aim DEFINITELY is. We'll be waiting for you...)
--
Don Bruder - ***@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
F. George McDuffee
2005-06-25 18:05:54 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Larry Jaques
My aim was at Shrub, not conservative justices. Scalia is my fave
justice.
<snip>
Blaming the Prez is like blaming the hood ornament of the Buick
that just ran over you.

It might be what's out front, buffed and chromed, and most
visible but it has [little to] no control over the speed and
direction of the car. One of the more frightening things about
this analogy is that there may be no one behind the wheel is
simply the modern day version of the loose cannon.

Our power structure would do well to reread Frankenstein, and
heed the words the last imperial Russian foreign minister uttered
just before he was shot by the reds, "I only wanted a little
war."

America has been far luckier than we have any right to expect,
and the power structure should stop pushing their [and our] luck.
Larry Jaques
2005-06-25 21:29:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:05:54 -0700, the opaque F. George McDuffee
Post by F. George McDuffee
<snip>
Post by Larry Jaques
My aim was at Shrub, not conservative justices. Scalia is my fave
justice.
<snip>
Blaming the Prez is like blaming the hood ornament of the Buick
that just ran over you.
I was taking a verbal potshot at the prez, FG. It had nothing to do
with the SCOTUS action. Reread the original post and you'll see.
Post by F. George McDuffee
It might be what's out front, buffed and chromed, and most
visible but it has [little to] no control over the speed and
direction of the car. One of the more frightening things about
this analogy is that there may be no one behind the wheel is
simply the modern day version of the loose cannon.
I'd sure like to know who's pulling all the strings at the top.
Post by F. George McDuffee
Our power structure would do well to reread Frankenstein, and
heed the words the last imperial Russian foreign minister uttered
just before he was shot by the reds, "I only wanted a little
war."
America has been far luckier than we have any right to expect,
and the power structure should stop pushing their [and our] luck.
A FREAKIN' MEN to that!


-----
= Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Emmo
2005-06-23 20:34:17 UTC
Permalink
"I love my country, but I fear my government,"
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking them
to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government to
seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Gunner
2005-06-24 06:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep, asking
them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the power of government
to seize personal propoerty for commercial development. I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Done.


If nothing else wakens the public..this will indeed.

Gunner
Post by Rex B
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
H.C. Minh
2005-06-24 22:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep,
asking them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the
power of government to seize personal propoerty for commercial
development. I thought the Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Done.
If nothing else wakens the public..this will indeed.
Gunner
Hoi Polloi is in a permanent vegetative state.

Think Terry Schiavo, Requiescat in Pace.
Gunner
2005-06-25 05:13:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by H.C. Minh
Post by Gunner
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep,
asking them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the
power of government to seize personal propoerty for commercial
development. I thought the Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Done.
If nothing else wakens the public..this will indeed.
Gunner
Hoi Polloi is in a permanent vegetative state.
Think Terry Schiavo, Requiescat in Pace.
Actually, Terry's passing was pretty much the wish of most of the
public. Now that folks understand that their basic LIFE is under the
knife..as most folks homes are their sole investment....I suspect we
will be seeing more... a lot more on the subject really soon.

And of course the lawyers who work for cities and other entities are
now making a mad scramble to see who they can fuck over.

And home owners who suddenly realize that they have no hope of
redress..are digging out the old deer rifles and war relics that have
been collecting dust in closets for years.

Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.

Anyone care to start a pool?

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Harold and Susan Vordos
2005-06-25 05:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by H.C. Minh
Post by Gunner
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep,
asking them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the
power of government to seize personal propoerty for commercial
development. I thought the Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Done.
If nothing else wakens the public..this will indeed.
Gunner
Hoi Polloi is in a permanent vegetative state.
Think Terry Schiavo, Requiescat in Pace.
Actually, Terry's passing was pretty much the wish of most of the
public. Now that folks understand that their basic LIFE is under the
knife..as most folks homes are their sole investment....I suspect we
will be seeing more... a lot more on the subject really soon.
And of course the lawyers who work for cities and other entities are
now making a mad scramble to see who they can fuck over.
And home owners who suddenly realize that they have no hope of
redress..are digging out the old deer rifles and war relics that have
been collecting dust in closets for years.
Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.
I fully agree. If people such as these have so little regard for the
well-being of others, that's what they'd deserve as far as I'm concerned.
Needless to say, matters such as these should be settled in court, but it
appears we now have the wolf guarding the henhouse. I can't think of
anything worse than justice denied.

Harold
"lionslair at consolidated dot net" <"lionslair at consolidated dot net">
2005-06-27 03:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harold and Susan Vordos
Post by Gunner
Post by H.C. Minh
Post by Gunner
Post by Rex B
Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.
Sad day for the average citizen.
I have already wrote both my state senators and my state rep,
asking them to sponsor or support legislation limiting the
power of government to seize personal propoerty for commercial
development. I thought the Constitution did that, until today.
Please stop now and send a message to your electred officials.
Rex Burkheimer
Done.
If nothing else wakens the public..this will indeed.
Gunner
Hoi Polloi is in a permanent vegetative state.
Think Terry Schiavo, Requiescat in Pace.
Actually, Terry's passing was pretty much the wish of most of the
public. Now that folks understand that their basic LIFE is under the
knife..as most folks homes are their sole investment....I suspect we
will be seeing more... a lot more on the subject really soon.
And of course the lawyers who work for cities and other entities are
now making a mad scramble to see who they can fuck over.
And home owners who suddenly realize that they have no hope of
redress..are digging out the old deer rifles and war relics that have
been collecting dust in closets for years.
Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.
I fully agree. If people such as these have so little regard for the
well-being of others, that's what they'd deserve as far as I'm concerned.
Needless to say, matters such as these should be settled in court, but it
appears we now have the wolf guarding the henhouse. I can't think of
anything worse than justice denied.
Harold
Yep - just short of a cow-tow sp? - issue with all government (locals) types and
likely all of the 'upper class types' that have connections..... Reminds me of China...
sucks.

After all - that new xxxx needs the frontage that covers your driveway... so they can
sell stick ons to kids.

Martin
--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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John Martin
2005-06-25 21:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.
Anyone care to start a pool?
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
No, I never win pools.

How about an ammo fund, instead?

John Martin
Gunner
2005-06-26 06:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Martin
Post by Gunner
Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.
Anyone care to start a pool?
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
No, I never win pools.
How about an ammo fund, instead?
John Martin
Works for me.

Anyone need 7.62x51?

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Steve W.
2005-06-27 00:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by John Martin
Post by Gunner
Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.
Anyone care to start a pool?
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
No, I never win pools.
How about an ammo fund, instead?
John Martin
Works for me.
Anyone need 7.62x51?
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Nope, But some M2 or M903 would be nice.......
I'd even settle for some M1-Inc. if someone was to toss in money for a
new barrel....

For the other toys I have plenty around. 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x63, 9x19
and .45
Steve W.







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F. George McDuffee
2005-06-25 23:43:12 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Gunner
Ill make a flat statement, that we will be seeing shootings of city
council members and lawyers within 1 year from today, over the taking
of the shooters properties.
<snip>
You may well be right, but this will make simply make martyrs to
the cause of law and order [as in their law and their orders]
while providing additional rational for the confiscation of
privately owned firearms. (What more could the George Soros
class ask for? They get to use the state to confiscate private
property at low cost for their money making schemes when no one
objects and get rational for disarming the people because of
"violent tendencies" when things go wrong.) Ruby Ridge and Waco
show the probable governmental reaction.

In my not so humble opinion, a better approach is to use modern
technology for24 hour surveillance such as night vision gear and
directional/high gain microphones to document/record the
politicians, judges and corporate others as they egnage in
illegal and unacceptable behaviors such as "porking" underage
honeys [of either gender], recreationally purchasing and/or using
illegal substances, or offering/accepting "hidden commissions"
[in the British usage]. Another good thrust is the existence of
"kiddy porn" on their computers or evidence of their
downloading/viewing the same over the Internet. It is tough to
be the poster child for gun control and/or law-n-order when you
are a registered sex offender.

A few jucy videotapes "over the transom" to the local media,
random private citizens, and the churches, etc. of the "land
grabbers" in action should put an end to their careers. It is
tough to retaliate against people you cannot identify, and the
ruin of their predecessors should serve as a warning to those
that replace them.
F. George McDuffee
2005-06-24 14:01:09 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Rex B
I thought the
Constitution did that, until today.
<snip>
Despite majority public opinion to the contrary, the Constitution
says exactly what the nine geezers in Washington says it says, no
more and no less. Thus, it is futile to go hat in hand to your
legislature whining for relief. If our so-called representatives
(who are all in the pockets of the land-grabbing corporations)
want to address this problem, the cure is impeachment and removal
from office of the revisionist judges, not more speeches to an
empty chamber on C-SPAN.

In other states, such as Kansas (and shortly Texas where I live),
the courts are now imposing taxes. It is clear that until and
unless the existing legislators are replaced with actual
representatives of the people, nothing will change.

The Constitution was written by and for honorable people. As
soon as the majority, or even a significant minority, of the
people that run things become other than honorable (amoral being
worse than dishonorable), the Constitution is as obsolete and
meaningless as were the five tablets of the law in imperial Rome.
Rex B
2005-06-24 15:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
Despite majority public opinion to the contrary, the Constitution
says exactly what the nine geezers in Washington says it says, no
more and no less.
Well, yes and no. The Constitution does not clearly delineate the
bounds. The majority opinions essentially said "If it's OK for the
public good, there is no easy way to differentiate between public good
from a new library or an enhanced environment due to a revitalized
business district, when that revitalization requires seizing of old
properties to allow construction of new".

Thus, it is futile to go hat in hand to your
Post by F. George McDuffee
legislature whining for relief. If our so-called representatives
(who are all in the pockets of the land-grabbing corporations)
want to address this problem, the cure is impeachment and removal
from office of the revisionist judges, not more speeches to an
empty chamber on C-SPAN.
I think there are some decent representatives. At least one of my
Senators seems to have some responsibility to the votors. I have written
her on the subject, as has my wife.
Post by F. George McDuffee
In other states, such as Kansas (and shortly Texas where I live),
the courts are now imposing taxes. It is clear that until and
unless the existing legislators are replaced with actual
representatives of the people, nothing will change.
Texas government is a mess. Rick Perry needs to go away, along with his
cronies and those that think like him. My representative, Vicki Truitt,
is excellent and responsive.

Rex
Ignoramus11275
2005-06-24 15:16:39 UTC
Permalink
I am sorry, but the federal government's powers are limited to the
enumerated powers granted to it by the Constitution.

The constitution recognizes the eminent domain power of the STATES (in
the 5th amendment), and regulating of eminent domain is not one of the
enumerated powers of the federal government, EXCEPT that the
constitution requires that takings should be accompanied by "just
compensation" and like other decisions, should not be arbitrary.

What this means is that if you do not like eminent domains used for
transferring property from a provate owner to another private owner,
then take it up with your state legislators, not with federal
government.

i
F. George McDuffee
2005-06-24 16:30:53 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:16:39 GMT, Ignoramus11275
Post by Ignoramus11275
I am sorry, but the federal government's powers are limited to the
enumerated powers granted to it by the Constitution.
<snip>
My bad -- I meant to say the constitution means what any *5* of
the 9 geezers in Washington say it means.

FWIW -- the constitution specifically says that only gold and
silver shall be used as currency [Art. 1 - sect. 10] -- see any
lately? A reading of the Constitution using ordinary language
(in which it was written) rather than special meanings known only
to judges clearly shows the ilegal nature of the current
government in this and many other areas. What are you going to
do about it? Sue?
Ignoramus11275
2005-06-24 16:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:16:39 GMT, Ignoramus11275
Post by Ignoramus11275
I am sorry, but the federal government's powers are limited to the
enumerated powers granted to it by the Constitution.
<snip>
My bad -- I meant to say the constitution means what any *5* of
the 9 geezers in Washington say it means.
FWIW -- the constitution specifically says that only gold and
silver shall be used as currency [Art. 1 - sect. 10] -- see any
lately?
Here's what it says:

``Section. 10.

Clause 1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or
Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit
Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in
Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or
Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of
Nobility.

Clause 2: No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any
Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely
necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of
all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall
be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws
shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

Clause 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any
Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter
into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign
Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent
Danger as will not admit of delay.''

the above applies to states only and forbids STATES from makig money
other that gold and silver coinds.

it does not apply to federal government.

i
Post by F. George McDuffee
A reading of the Constitution using ordinary language
(in which it was written) rather than special meanings known only
to judges clearly shows the ilegal nature of the current
government in this and many other areas. What are you going to
do about it? Sue?
--
azotic
2005-06-24 15:41:07 UTC
Permalink
The clear and reasonable solution is to pass a federal
law requiring local governments to pay land owners
the fair market vaule of properties based on sales
of simular properties in the same area spanning the
previous 3 year time period.

Best Regards
Tom.
John Martin
2005-06-25 21:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by azotic
The clear and reasonable solution is to pass a federal
law requiring local governments to pay land owners
the fair market vaule of properties based on sales
of simular properties in the same area spanning the
previous 3 year time period.
Best Regards
Tom.
I think you'll find that is already the case, although it may not be a
federal law.

In my opinion, this case may actually be about money, and not about
individual property rights.

Let's say your house is worth $250,000. You have no intention of
selling it. I have a factory next door that I want to expand, so I
offer you $300,000 for it. You're still not interested. So I keep
raising my offer. What happens when I get to $1,000,000? Will you
still say no?

My point is that if a prospective private buyer wants a piece of
property badly enough, he can probably find a price that will convince
the owner to sell. Getting a town to seize the property and turn it
over to him is just a way to get it cheaper. It stinks. No, it's
worse than that. Maybe it's something that a few shootings will make
the towns think twice about.

John Martin
J. R. Carroll
2005-06-24 17:01:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Texas government is a mess. Rick Perry needs to go away, along with his
cronies and those that think like him. My representative, Vicki Truitt,
is excellent and responsive.
I thought Perry lost and was out of office?
--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com
Rex B
2005-06-24 18:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. R. Carroll
Post by Rex B
Texas government is a mess. Rick Perry needs to go away, along with his
cronies and those that think like him. My representative, Vicki Truitt,
is excellent and responsive.
I thought Perry lost and was out of office?
If that's true, nobody told Perry.
J. R. Carroll
2005-06-24 20:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Post by J. R. Carroll
Post by Rex B
Texas government is a mess. Rick Perry needs to go away, along with his
cronies and those that think like him. My representative, Vicki Truitt,
is excellent and responsive.
I thought Perry lost and was out of office?
If that's true, nobody told Perry.
Sorry Rex,
I was thinking of the Patrick Rose/Rick Green race. It was a real doozie.
You Texan's all look alike to us Californians you know :>)
--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com
Rex B
2005-06-24 21:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. R. Carroll
Sorry Rex,
I was thinking of the Patrick Rose/Rick Green race. It was a real doozie.
You Texan's all look alike to us Californians you know :>)
Same to ya :)
DeepDiver
2005-06-23 20:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say what
should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty needs
refreshing):

- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer

Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.

Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of America
and of our Constitution.
Rex B
2005-06-23 21:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by DeepDiver
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say what
should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty needs
- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer
Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.
Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of America
and of our Constitution.
And be sure to read Sandra Day O'Conner's dissenting opinion. She's
right on the money, and she's pissed!
Harold and Susan Vordos
2005-06-24 05:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Post by DeepDiver
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say what
should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty needs
- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer
Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.
Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of America
and of our Constitution.
And be sure to read Sandra Day O'Conner's dissenting opinion. She's
right on the money, and she's pissed!
As she should be!

Harold
JohnM
2005-06-23 22:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by DeepDiver
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say what
should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty needs
- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer
Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.
Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of America
and of our Constitution.
You ain't joking.. This is bad stuff, this is the sort of thing that's
used against the people who give those in power a pain.

I think that of all the current events that have been discussed
recently, this bothers me the most. Bad stuff..

John
Koz
2005-06-23 23:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnM
Post by DeepDiver
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say
what should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty
- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer
Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.
Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of
America and of our Constitution.
You ain't joking.. This is bad stuff, this is the sort of thing that's
used against the people who give those in power a pain.
I think that of all the current events that have been discussed
recently, this bothers me the most. Bad stuff..
John
I drove through my small and grreedy town today thinking about these:

Development on the corner that would be worth soooooo much more if the
city gobbled up the bank and gave it to the developer to make a full
city block

The ailing K-Mart that could easily be gobbled for a more profitable
shopping center i

The 120 year old dairy farm that is surrounded by business parks that
would serve the city more profitably as another generic business park

And on and on....

I bet within a few months there are "consultants" pitching redevelopment
proposals to towns if they only gobble up the right properties.

Koz
azotic
2005-06-24 06:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Koz
Post by JohnM
Post by DeepDiver
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say what
should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty needs
- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer
Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.
Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of
America and of our Constitution.
You ain't joking.. This is bad stuff, this is the sort of thing that's
used against the people who give those in power a pain.
I think that of all the current events that have been discussed recently,
this bothers me the most. Bad stuff..
John
Development on the corner that would be worth soooooo much more if the
city gobbled up the bank and gave it to the developer to make a full city
block
The ailing K-Mart that could easily be gobbled for a more profitable
shopping center i
The 120 year old dairy farm that is surrounded by business parks that
would serve the city more profitably as another generic business park
And on and on....
I bet within a few months there are "consultants" pitching redevelopment
proposals to towns if they only gobble up the right properties.
Koz
Its a great way to get rid of those pesky elderly home owners that
enjoy a senior citizen tax freeze, in addition it is now possible to
destroy any ethnic or minority neighborhood deemed undesirable
in the name of economic development and you won't violate anyones
civil rights. I see this ruling being used against black, hispanic and
elderly home owners in large urban areas like chicago, detroit, etc.
Yuppie condo owners don't want to see anyone that is not just
like they are.

Can racist nazi judges be impeached ?

Best Regards
Tom.
~Roy~
2005-06-24 00:38:39 UTC
Permalink
The american dream is history....you work all your fucking life to own
a house that you wanted and live in the location you wanted only to
have the fucking government big boys take it away from you so their
good friend can build a condo or public parking lot to better serve
mankind that was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and had
everything handed to them............Its at the point you don;t even
own the underwear you have on if some government official finds a need
for them drawers they will pass a law to get them.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
Roger_Nickel
2005-06-24 19:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnM
Post by DeepDiver
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Here are the guilty jackals who should be impeached (I'll not say what
should happen after, but let's just say that the Tree of Liberty needs
- John Paul Stevens
- Anthony Kennedy
- David H. Souter
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg
- Stephen G. Breyer
Of course, no surprises from the socialist/communist tyrants in black robes.
Remember these names and remember them well. They are the enemies of
America and of our Constitution.
You ain't joking.. This is bad stuff, this is the sort of thing that's
used against the people who give those in power a pain.
I think that of all the current events that have been discussed
recently, this bothers me the most. Bad stuff..
John
I guess these five support what is happening in Zimbawe at the moment?. Oh the
irony of it all.
bart
2005-06-23 23:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Laws are made by the wealthy, for the wealthy...isn't that the first
thing taught in law school?
Dave
2005-06-29 14:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by bart
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Laws are made by the wealthy, for the wealthy...isn't that the first
thing taught in law school?
Probably. BTW, this looks like a hopeful project...

http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostliberty2.html
Vince Iorio
2005-06-24 00:07:48 UTC
Permalink
In my book, this is worse then 9/11.

Vince
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
a***@yahoo.com
2005-06-24 03:56:12 UTC
Permalink
This is a very subtle but direct attack on churches ( notice that all
the justices in favor of this are also very anti religion).
Churches own lots of prime land and pay no taxes....exactly the case
that this ruling opens up...Anyone who now wants to build a shopping
center where a church now sits...Good bye church...

Maybe NOW people will understand why it is so important to get decent
Constitutionalist judges on the bench.

al in colorado
Gunner
2005-06-24 06:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
This is a very subtle but direct attack on churches ( notice that all
the justices in favor of this are also very anti religion).
Churches own lots of prime land and pay no taxes....exactly the case
that this ruling opens up...Anyone who now wants to build a shopping
center where a church now sits...Good bye church...
Maybe NOW people will understand why it is so important to get decent
Constitutionalist judges on the bench.
al in colorado
Damned straight!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
ff
2005-06-24 16:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
This is a very subtle but direct attack on churches ( notice that all
the justices in favor of this are also very anti religion).
Churches own lots of prime land and pay no taxes....exactly the case
that this ruling opens up...Anyone who now wants to build a shopping
center where a church now sits...Good bye church...
Maybe NOW people will understand why it is so important to get decent
Constitutionalist judges on the bench.
al in colorado
Yeah, let's bring back those good ole days. When only white male
property owners were entitled to vote.

BTW, the founding fathers were not to crazy about religion:

http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm
Rex B
2005-06-24 18:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ff
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm
52 of the 55 signers of The Declaration of Independence were orthodox,
deeply committed Christians.

The same congress formed the American Bible Society. Immediately after
creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted
to purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this
nation.

Patrick Henry wrote in 1776 "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too
often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by
Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that
reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of
worship here."

Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well- worn Bible: "I am a
Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have
little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of
our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also."

George Washington, the Father of our Nation, in his farewell speech on
September 19, 1796:
"It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all
the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, our
religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with
caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without
religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our
national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
John Adams, our second president, who also served as chairman of the
American Bible Society: In an address to military leaders he said, "We
have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human
passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our constitution was
made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to
the government of any other."

Our first Court Justice, John Jay, stated that when we select our
national leaders, if we are to preserve our Nation, we must select
Christians. "Providence has given to our people the choice of their
rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our
Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams, was the sixth U.S. President and
chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest
and most important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The
highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one
indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles
of Christianity."

Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the United States wrote "The
foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the
teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if
faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our
country."

In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The congress
of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in
all schools."

James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
States, said "We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not
upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of
all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves
to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten
Commandments.
Gunner
2005-06-25 05:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
Post by ff
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm
52 of the 55 signers of The Declaration of Independence were orthodox,
deeply committed Christians.
The same congress formed the American Bible Society. Immediately after
creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted
to purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this
nation.
Patrick Henry wrote in 1776 "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too
often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by
Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that
reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of
worship here."
Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well- worn Bible: "I am a
Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have
little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of
our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also."
George Washington, the Father of our Nation, in his farewell speech on
"It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all
the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, our
religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with
caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without
religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our
national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
John Adams, our second president, who also served as chairman of the
American Bible Society: In an address to military leaders he said, "We
have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human
passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our constitution was
made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to
the government of any other."
Our first Court Justice, John Jay, stated that when we select our
national leaders, if we are to preserve our Nation, we must select
Christians. "Providence has given to our people the choice of their
rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our
Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams, was the sixth U.S. President and
chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest
and most important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The
highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one
indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles
of Christianity."
Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the United States wrote "The
foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the
teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if
faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our
country."
In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The congress
of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in
all schools."
James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
States, said "We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not
upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of
all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves
to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten
Commandments.
Point..set and match.


Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Rex B
2005-06-27 16:13:43 UTC
Permalink
I'm not going to research all those for you, as they are a matter of
public record. But examples such as these are endless. Here's a few more:

"The rising greatness of our country...is greatly tarnished by the
general prevalence of deism, which, with me, is but another name for
vice and depravity....I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of
their number; and indeed that some good people think I am no Christian.
This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory (being
called a traitor), because I think religion of infinitely higher
importance than politics....Being a Christian...is a character which I
prize far above all this world has or can boast." (Quote from The Life
of Patrick Henry of Virginia by A. G. Arnold in 1854)

President George Washington, September 17th, 1796 "It is impossible to
rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"
Post by Gunner
Post by Rex B
Post by ff
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm
52 of the 55 signers of The Declaration of Independence were orthodox,
deeply committed Christians.
The same congress formed the American Bible Society. Immediately after
creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted
to purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this
nation.
Patrick Henry wrote in 1776 "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too
often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by
Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that
reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of
worship here."
Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well- worn Bible: "I am a
Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have
little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of
our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also."
George Washington, the Father of our Nation, in his farewell speech on
"It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all
the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, our
religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with
caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without
religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our
national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
John Adams, our second president, who also served as chairman of the
American Bible Society: In an address to military leaders he said, "We
have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human
passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our constitution was
made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to
the government of any other."
Our first Court Justice, John Jay, stated that when we select our
national leaders, if we are to preserve our Nation, we must select
Christians. "Providence has given to our people the choice of their
rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our
Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams, was the sixth U.S. President and
chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest
and most important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The
highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one
indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles
of Christianity."
Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the United States wrote "The
foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the
teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if
faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our
country."
In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The congress
of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in
all schools."
James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
States, said "We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not
upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of
all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves
to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten
Commandments.
Point..set and match.
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
ff
2005-06-27 20:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rex B
I'm not going to research all those for you, as they are a matter of
"The rising greatness of our country...is greatly tarnished by the
general prevalence of deism, which, with me, is but another name for
vice and depravity....I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of
their number; and indeed that some good people think I am no
Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation
of Tory (being called a traitor), because I think religion of
infinitely higher importance than politics....Being a Christian...is a
character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast."
(Quote from The Life of Patrick Henry of Virginia by A. G. Arnold in
1854)
President George Washington, September 17th, 1796 "It is impossible to
rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"
He also said, "The United States of America should have a foundation
free from the influence of clergy." The Treaty of Tripoli, which was

written during Washington's administration and signed by John Adams,
said the following in Article 11, "The government of the United States
is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

I think you are contradicting yourself here when one of your quotes
speaks of the "general prevalence of deism" and the other tries to imply
the founding fathers were all/mostly Christians.

Benjamin Franklin wrote the following in his autobiography:

"Scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having
doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated
in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation
itself."

"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they
wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for
the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to
me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a
thorough Deist."

Does this mean that they were all/mostly deists? No, but it certainly
shows that at least one of our founding fathers very definitely *was* a
deist.


-- Fred
ff
2005-06-25 11:24:14 UTC
Permalink
Rex B wrote:
<snip>

Cites?

ff
Harold and Susan Vordos
2005-06-30 07:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
I guess now they won't have to waste any time trumping up a claim that
your area is "blighted" before sending in the bulldozers.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Justice!

http://www.freestarmedia.com/

Harold

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