Discussion:
Problem with Lincoln Ranger 8 - no output
(too old to reply)
Chuck Jurgens
2004-12-01 18:41:24 UTC
Permalink
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)

I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.

I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)

TIA

Chuck
Grant Erwin
2004-12-01 18:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuck Jurgens
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)
I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.
I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)
TIA
Chuck
Blown fuse? I'd get down there and smell around -- if something burned
up, even a few years ago, you'll still smell it. Nothing burned probably
means cheap to fix.

GWE
RoyJ
2004-12-01 19:35:58 UTC
Permalink
No output could be all sorts of things from a popped breaker on the
panel (free to fix!!) to a blown diode in the excite circuit (cheap) to
burned windings (don't go there!) Nothing really to say until you get to
look at the unit and test it out.

Manual is here:
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/navigator/im/IM510.pdf
Comprehensive manual, includes full wiring diagrams

This is a nice unit for small jobsite use. Not up to procuction work on
bridges or pipelines but certainly a good one for truck repair or
sitting in the back of the maintenaince truck.

If you aren't able to test it before you buy, I'd assume that you have
fried some major component, perhaps several hundred bucks to fix.
Discount the price down by at least that much and roll the dice. I did
the same on an Onan unit of somewhat simliar specs, when the engine spun
freely, I assumed a bad valve. I figured that there was only one thing
wrong with it, I could deal with a valve cheaply, might have to deal
with a bad rod. It had a stuck valve, took an hour to get it running
like a top. Thats when I found out about the scorched windings, $1700
for a new stator from Onan. Scrap heap time. Still using the stator as a
counter weight in my garage.
Post by Chuck Jurgens
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)
I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.
I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)
TIA
Chuck
Larry Jaques
2004-12-01 21:24:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuck Jurgens
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)
I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.
I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)
Why not? Your request reminds me of the guys and gals who used to call
into the body shop with questions on how much it would cost to fix
their bent fender. Of course, they didn't say what make/model car,
which fender, with/without trim/striping, or how bad the damage was
(possible frame/quarterpanel/roof/glass involvement), either.

Possible problems: electrical, mechanical, electronic, combo of any of
these 3 modes.

Possible problems: open circuit breaker, broken key on motor shaft
going to generator section, bad electronic control circuit board,
broken wire on stator/rotor/field, bad diode, loose wire, burnt
resistor, cold solder joint, etc.

Possible repair costs: $0 to $2,000+.

Good enough, Chuck? ;)


-------------------------------------------------------------
give me The Luxuries Of Life * http://www.diversify.com
i can live without the necessities * 2 Tee collections online
-------------------------------------------------------------
Bob
2004-12-02 04:36:40 UTC
Permalink
This machine has a three year warranty. I would check the manufacturing
date. If it happens to be just under three years old I would get it to a
Lincoln authorized shop and get it repaired under warranty. The
manufacturing date is encoded into the serial number. The first two
characters in the serial number, normally "U1" is the plant where the
machine was made. The next two are the year, "01" would be 2001, and the
next two are the month. I think the warranty may apply to the original
owner, but if the manufacturing date is within three years, you won't even
need to show a receipt to have it repaired.

If you have neither weld or auxilliary output, the problem is most likely in
the rotating field circuit. This circuit includes the rotor, brushes, bridge
rectifier, field capacitor, printed circuit board, control pot, etc. The
cost to repair this machine could range from free, if the problem were just
a bad connection, and you repair it yourself, to more than $1000.00 if a
rotor would need to be replaced.

Good Luck,

Bob
Post by Chuck Jurgens
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)
I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.
I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)
TIA
Chuck
Bob
2004-12-02 14:39:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
This machine has a three year warranty. I would check the manufacturing
date. If it happens to be just under three years old I would get it to a
Lincoln authorized shop and get it repaired under warranty. The
manufacturing date is encoded into the serial number. The first two
characters in the serial number, normally "U1" is the plant where the
machine was made. The next two are the year, "01" would be 2001, and the
next two are the month. I think the warranty may apply to the original
owner, but if the manufacturing date is within three years, you won't even
need to show a receipt to have it repaired.
If you have neither weld or auxilliary output, the problem is most likely
in the rotating field circuit. This circuit includes the rotor, brushes,
bridge rectifier, field capacitor, printed circuit board, control pot,
etc. The cost to repair this machine could range from free, if the problem
were just a bad connection, and you repair it yourself, to more than
$1000.00 if a rotor would need to be replaced.
Good Luck,
Bob
I have another thought about this problem I wanted to share. It will
normally not cause any damage to start this machine under load, providing
that it is shut off within a reasonable amount of time if it doesn't
build-up to its normal output.

If it were started under a heavy load and someone just walked away and
didn't notice for some time that it wasn't producing output, the flashing
circuit components on the PC board may have failed. If this has happend, the
board will probably need to be replaced.

There are four large ceramic resistors on the PC board, the middle two are
in the flashing circuit. If these are damaged this may be your problem. It
is not a problem if the coating on these resistors is discolored or burned.
It is normal for these resistors to get hot and burn the coating on the
board, but if these resistors are open, the machine will not produce any
output.

Bob
Post by Bob
Post by Chuck Jurgens
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)
I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.
I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)
TIA
Chuck
Brad King
2004-12-11 03:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Some thngs to think about....

The running out of gas might be a place to start. Check for blown/tripped
breakers-fuses.A burnt wire or corroded connection might cause this
condition as much as a malfunctioning switch. Get a good volt-ohmmeter and
get to work!

There is a tremendous voltage spike when a machine like this is stopped
under load. This spike can wipe out many discreet and non discreet
components.

That machine is an alternator based unit. Check for open circuit voltage on
DC and AC. Should be in the 70+/- volt range. A manual will tell you what it
should be at what RPM. This should tell you if the rectifier is working-or
blocking output.(Spikes like to take out rectifiers) Even if welding output
is blocked by the rectifier, the AC weld power and aux 110 and 220 outlets
should function.

Athough the problem is rarely here in alternator machines, check the brushes
and slip rings. You never know.

Put your meter probes on the back (wire end) of the brush and on the slip
ring. There should be very little resistance.
If the slip rings are brown-do not clean with any abrasive, although a spray
of contact cleaner would not hurt. The brown is copper oxide and much more
conductive than even a new "shiny" surface.

Black, grooved or burned rings must be resurfaced with a commutator stone
(available from industrial outlets) or wood type sandpaper. Avoid all emery
based products as the emery tends to embed itself in the soft copper and
will wear your brushes out in no time.

If all wires, connections and switches work and no or very low welding power
or aux power-the fields may have to be "flashed". Not very complicated, but
must be done absolutely correctly, or your machine will be good nothing more
than boat anchor material!!

Flashing is a procedure to "recharge" the residual magnetism in the exciter
circuit. Kind of like priming a pump. This residual magnetism can deminish
with long periods of inactivity.

If you get that far, let me know. Email direct if possible.
Also let me know serial# or give me your specific electrical schematic
diagram. This is one time that the exact diagram is needed. A typical
diagram might work.Or it might not!

There is a diagram inside your machine. This is the one to use. It has a
number and can be emailed, faxed, etc after contacting Lincoln-check their
website.

Buying a used welder is always a crapshoot. Always a "pig in a poke"

Engine drives are always the most risky, due to the inclement weather,
numerous parts required, vibration, etc.

My advice has always been, as far as any used equipment, is that if you
can't "steal it"-don't buy it.

Don't be afraid to insult the seller. Keep in mind a bad rotor or stator
(fields or armature) can cost 800-1200 to fix. Keep your risk to a minimum.
A bearing running out even 10 thousandths can make some engine drive
machines junk.

Any other questions-let me know. I'll guide you through this step by step,
if needed.

Hope this helps a little

Good Luck

brad

Yes, I'm back!!!!
Post by Chuck Jurgens
I have the opportunity to purchase a 3 year old Lincoln Ranger 8
welder/generator with 600 hours. Apparently, the unit worked well for
3 years. However, while powering a refrigerator and some lamps, it
ran out of gas. When it was filled up and re-started, there was no
power output. (I ASSUME it was started under load.)
I have not actually seen or tested the unit but I'm wondering if
anyone has any comments about the possible problem and a ballpark
figure on the cost to repair.
I realize that this is VERY sketchy information but that's all I have.
(Please - no smart ass responses.)
TIA
Chuck
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