Simultaneous Multiple Tool Melt Down

[Bob La Londe]

My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee. Used to
be Makita 30 years ago but they kind of fell behind. Day in day out as
a contractor I bought Milwaukee cordless. When one of my drills died,
and new brushes didn't revive it, and then I got down to just one good
battery I gave up and went cheap. I used the Harbor Freight Bauer line.
Its not horrible, the tools are cheap, and the bigger batteries are
actually decent. After my dad passed away I found he had gone with
DeWalt. I gave all my Bauer tools to my son and started using my dad's
DeWalt stuff. Well, not in that order.

I also found (with both Bauer and DeWalt) that for some tools the
smaller batteries are fine. I figured they would be fine for
everything. They just wouldn't run as long. No. That's not true.
Some tools just wouldn't run very well on the smaller batteries that
usually come with the "packages." A couple come to mind. Cordless angle
grinder, chainsaw, hedge trimmer... Bauer or DeWalt both kind of bogged
out instantly with the small batteries and produced respectably with 4AH
or bigger batteries.

I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries. I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of yellow
DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless tool.

[Bob La Londe]

My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee.  Used to
be Makita 30 years ago but they kind of fell behind.  Day in day out as
a contractor I bought Milwaukee cordless.  When one of my drills died,
and new brushes didn't revive it, and then I got down to just one good
battery I gave up and went cheap.  I used the Harbor Freight Bauer line.
 Its not horrible, the tools are cheap, and the bigger batteries are
actually decent.  After my dad passed away I found he had gone with
DeWalt.  I gave all my Bauer tools to my son and started using my dad's
DeWalt stuff.  Well, not in that order.
I also found (with both Bauer and DeWalt) that for some tools the
smaller batteries are fine.  I figured they would be fine for
everything.  They just wouldn't run as long.  No.  That's not true. Some
tools just wouldn't run very well on the smaller batteries that usually
come with the "packages."  A couple come to mind. Cordless angle
grinder, chainsaw, hedge trimmer... Bauer or DeWalt both kind of bogged
out instantly with the small batteries and produced respectably with 4AH
or bigger batteries.
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries.  I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of yellow
DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless tool.

I have broken one DeWalt tool since switching. I was helping out a
buddy, and I stuck a blade in backwards (tang end out) in a DeWalt
cordless jig saw. Of course I broke the blade clamp mechanism trying to
get it out. I finally looked it up and ordered a new blade clamp
assembly today.

[Snag]

My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee.  Used
to be Makita 30 years ago but they kind of fell behind.  Day in day
out as a contractor I bought Milwaukee cordless.  When one of my
drills died, and new brushes didn't revive it, and then I got down to
just one good battery I gave up and went cheap.  I used the Harbor
Freight Bauer line.   Its not horrible, the tools are cheap, and the
bigger batteries are actually decent.  After my dad passed away I
found he had gone with DeWalt.  I gave all my Bauer tools to my son
and started using my dad's DeWalt stuff.  Well, not in that order.
I also found (with both Bauer and DeWalt) that for some tools the
smaller batteries are fine.  I figured they would be fine for
everything.  They just wouldn't run as long.  No.  That's not true.
Some tools just wouldn't run very well on the smaller batteries that
usually come with the "packages."  A couple come to mind. Cordless
angle grinder, chainsaw, hedge trimmer... Bauer or DeWalt both kind of
bogged out instantly with the small batteries and produced respectably
with 4AH or bigger batteries.
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries.  I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of
yellow DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless tool.

I have broken one DeWalt tool since switching.  I was helping out a
buddy, and I stuck a blade in backwards (tang end out) in a DeWalt
cordless jig saw.  Of course I broke the blade clamp mechanism trying to
get it out.  I finally looked it up and ordered a new blade clamp
assembly today.

DeWalt has been my go-to for many years for battery tools . When I
was building cabinets I used the 12 volt drills because they were
lighter and had plenty of power . I'm using the 18 volt stuff now except
for one 20V drill I picked up at a yard sale .

[James Waldby]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee.

[...]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries.  I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of
yellow DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless tool.

[...]

DeWalt has been my go-to for many years for battery tools . When I
was building cabinets I used the 12 volt drills because they were
lighter and had plenty of power . I'm using the 18 volt stuff now except
for one 20V drill I picked up at a yard sale .

Re 20V Max vs 18, the working voltage is the same, ~18 volts, because
20V Max batteries typically have units of 5 Li ions in series, so
5x3.6 = 18V working vs 15x1.2 nominal for NiCad or NiMH. Fresh from the
charger 20V Max may read 20 but for most of the discharge cycle, ~18. See
<https://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/13919-dewalt-batteries-18v-vs-20v/>
<https://cibpartners.co.za/the-truth-about-dewalt-10vmax-batteries> (sic)

If you have 18V XRP batteries with stems vs the flat tops of 18V XR or
20V Max batteries you can get $10-$15 adapters - contacts in a plastic
shell - that let you use 20V Max batteries on 18V XRP. Eg google for
`adapt 20v max to 18v`. I got one adapter, needing another 18V XRP to
avoid moving batteries from tool to tool during a project.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by James Waldby

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee.

[...]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries.  I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of
yellow DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless tool.

[...]

DeWalt has been my go-to for many years for battery tools . When I
was building cabinets I used the 12 volt drills because they were
lighter and had plenty of power . I'm using the 18 volt stuff now except
for one 20V drill I picked up at a yard sale .

Re 20V Max vs 18, the working voltage is the same, ~18 volts, because
20V Max batteries typically have units of 5 Li ions in series, so
5x3.6 = 18V working vs 15x1.2 nominal for NiCad or NiMH. Fresh from the
charger 20V Max may read 20 but for most of the discharge cycle, ~18. See
<https://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/13919-dewalt-batteries-18v-vs-20v/>
<https://cibpartners.co.za/the-truth-about-dewalt-10vmax-batteries> (sic)
If you have 18V XRP batteries with stems vs the flat tops of 18V XR or
20V Max batteries you can get $10-$15 adapters - contacts in a plastic
shell - that let you use 20V Max batteries on 18V XRP. Eg google for
`adapt 20v max to 18v`. I got one adapter, needing another 18V XRP to
avoid moving batteries from tool to tool during a project.

I consider the arguments about 18V 20 to be moot. Its like saying a car
battery is 12V. I have a 36V LiFPo for the trolling motor on one of my
boats, but its actually well over 40 static charge.

As long as the voltage is close its really AH and CA that matter.

Yes, I am aware CA may not be a precise term in all applications, but
its close enough.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by James Waldby

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee.

[...]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries.  I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of
yellow DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless tool.

[...]

DeWalt has been my go-to for many years for battery tools . When I
was building cabinets I used the 12 volt drills because they were
lighter and had plenty of power . I'm using the 18 volt stuff now except
for one 20V drill I picked up at a yard sale .

Re 20V Max vs 18, the working voltage is the same, ~18 volts, because
20V Max batteries typically have units of 5 Li ions in series, so
5x3.6 = 18V working vs 15x1.2 nominal for NiCad or NiMH. Fresh from the
charger 20V Max may read 20 but for most of the discharge cycle, ~18. See
<https://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/13919-dewalt-batteries-18v-vs-20v/>
<https://cibpartners.co.za/the-truth-about-dewalt-10vmax-batteries> (sic)
If you have 18V XRP batteries with stems vs the flat tops of 18V XR or
20V Max batteries you can get $10-$15 adapters - contacts in a plastic
shell - that let you use 20V Max batteries on 18V XRP. Eg google for
`adapt 20v max to 18v`. I got one adapter, needing another 18V XRP to
avoid moving batteries from tool to tool during a project.

A couple of the tools came with battery adapters already on them.
Everything will use the 20V max batteries.

[Richard Smith]

Post by Bob La Londe
My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee. Used
to be Makita 30 years ago but they kind of fell behind. Day in day
out as a contractor I bought Milwaukee cordless. When one of my
drills died, and new brushes didn't revive it, and then I got down to
just one good battery I gave up and went cheap. I used the Harbor
Freight Bauer line. Its not horrible, the tools are cheap, and the
bigger batteries are actually decent. After my dad passed away I
found he had gone with DeWalt. I gave all my Bauer tools to my son
and started using my dad's DeWalt stuff. Well, not in that order.
I also found (with both Bauer and DeWalt) that for some tools the
smaller batteries are fine. I figured they would be fine for
everything. They just wouldn't run as long. No. That's not
true. Some tools just wouldn't run very well on the smaller batteries
that usually come with the "packages." A couple come to
mind. Cordless angle grinder, chainsaw, hedge trimmer... Bauer or
DeWalt both kind of bogged out instantly with the small batteries and
produced respectably with 4AH or bigger batteries.
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries. I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of
yellow DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless
tool.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

I use 4Ah 18V (that's "badge-engineered" to 20V in the USA) batteries in
the SDS-drill I use for drilling sockets in granite.
Seems to work very well.
About battery size and finding that not the most massive battery seems
necessary to get performance which seems absolutely fine.

Have previously asked on r.c.m. when looking to set up this capability.

Are DeWalt drill and battery.
Is DCH263. Largest drill using "small tool" batteries (?).

Drill is best no pilot drill to 12mm into hard granite including elvan
(very hard fine-grained dykes where magma has infilled fissures in
previously solidified granite). 14mm there might be an advantage in
pilot-drilling - not less than 7mm because the drill over-powers
anything smaller and melts the tool - but not more than 8mm - seem to
want to pilot at half the final drill size.
Talking about carbide-tipped masonry drills.

4Ah does quite a lot of holes.
Working hard breaking rocks, get through 1~1/2 4Ah batteries in 3~1/2
hours. That's both drilling sockets and using the feathers-and-wedge
sets to break-up boulders.

Locally the price for 18V DeWalt Li-ion batteries is GBP13 per Ah.
Had 4's but no 5's, so as price is pro-rata here, got another 4Ah.

Coming back to your point - the batteries seem just fine, and I let you
be the judge of that by describing the work they do.

regards,
Rich S

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Richard Smith

Post by Bob La Londe
My preferred cordless tool line for a long time was Milwaukee. Used
to be Makita 30 years ago but they kind of fell behind. Day in day
out as a contractor I bought Milwaukee cordless. When one of my
drills died, and new brushes didn't revive it, and then I got down to
just one good battery I gave up and went cheap. I used the Harbor
Freight Bauer line. Its not horrible, the tools are cheap, and the
bigger batteries are actually decent. After my dad passed away I
found he had gone with DeWalt. I gave all my Bauer tools to my son
and started using my dad's DeWalt stuff. Well, not in that order.
I also found (with both Bauer and DeWalt) that for some tools the
smaller batteries are fine. I figured they would be fine for
everything. They just wouldn't run as long. No. That's not
true. Some tools just wouldn't run very well on the smaller batteries
that usually come with the "packages." A couple come to
mind. Cordless angle grinder, chainsaw, hedge trimmer... Bauer or
DeWalt both kind of bogged out instantly with the small batteries and
produced respectably with 4AH or bigger batteries.
I just spent $700(+) dollars on four legit (not Amazon or eBay knock
offs) 8ah DeWalt batteries. I figure after dropping real coin on
batteries I'll walk in the shop tomorrow and find melted pools of
yellow DeWalt plastic everywhere there used to be a DeWalt cordless
tool.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

I use 4Ah 18V (that's "badge-engineered" to 20V in the USA) batteries in
the SDS-drill I use for drilling sockets in granite.
Seems to work very well.
About battery size and finding that not the most massive battery seems
necessary to get performance which seems absolutely fine.

"DeWalt both kind of bogged out instantly with the small batteries and
produced respectably with 4AH or bigger batteries."

Post by Richard Smith
Have previously asked on r.c.m. when looking to set up this capability.
Are DeWalt drill and battery.
Is DCH263. Largest drill using "small tool" batteries (?).
Drill is best no pilot drill to 12mm into hard granite including elvan
(very hard fine-grained dykes where magma has infilled fissures in
previously solidified granite). 14mm there might be an advantage in
pilot-drilling - not less than 7mm because the drill over-powers
anything smaller and melts the tool - but not more than 8mm - seem to
want to pilot at half the final drill size.
Talking about carbide-tipped masonry drills.
4Ah does quite a lot of holes.
Working hard breaking rocks, get through 1~1/2 4Ah batteries in 3~1/2
hours. That's both drilling sockets and using the feathers-and-wedge
sets to break-up boulders.
Locally the price for 18V DeWalt Li-ion batteries is GBP13 per Ah.
Had 4's but no 5's, so as price is pro-rata here, got another 4Ah.
Coming back to your point - the batteries seem just fine, and I let you
be the judge of that by describing the work they do.

"DeWalt both kind of bogged out instantly with the small batteries and
produced respectably with 4AH or bigger batteries."

Drilling is generally less torque requirement than slicing steel with an
angle grinder, or cutting trees with a chainsaw. Even the smallest
cheap batteries have been okay for drilling. Just not for very long.

Post by Richard Smith
regards,
Rich S

[Bob La Londe]

On 9/25/2024 12:02 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

... and my apologies for not having more to add when you were
information seeking. For 30-ish years as a contractor (23 owning my own
company) I found it was often much faster to use heavy duty corded tools
even if it meant lugging out and uncoiling heavy duty extension cords.
I promise I can drill every hole in stick frame house for wiring with a
corded Milwaukee drill in half the time as a decent 1/2 Milwaukee
cordless drill regardless of the battery size. I used my cordless
drills a lot on jobs, but not when I had a lot of drilling to do. I
also went through the early days on battery platforms for a variety of
cordless tools and most of them were garbage from any brand initially,
so I just carried corded tools for everything. Its only been relatively
recently I started using more cordless stuff besides drills regularly
and only this year that I learned that a bigger amp hour cordless tool
battery will also often be capable of more cranking amps.

I can't give you studies or reports. I can just tell you what my
experience is.