I "SNAG"ed A Couple Tool Boxes Yesterday

[Bob La Londe]

I saw a couple US General tool boxes listed on Nextdoor for $200. It
didn't say "firm" or anything like that so I made an offer of $150 and
didn't hear back. A couple days later I sent a message asking, "Are
these still available." (I hate that auto message, but in this case it
seemed suitable.) I would have paid $200, but since he didn't say firm...

Shortly after my second message I received a message apologizing for not
getting back with me and accepting my offer of $150.

For those who don't know US General is a Harbor Freight brand. I have a
couple a couple or three tool carts with drawers int he back for tool
carts for manual machine tools. They don't quite have enough space,
which is why I ordered the Yukon boxes I talked about in Snag's tool
score post. They are decent, and have held up fairly well. I thought I
knew what to expect.

In person the US General toolboxes were better built than the tool carts
I have. I never really looked at them close in the store. The top box
was a lot heavier than I expected, and very solid feeling. More so than
most. The bottom roller cabinet was also similarly solid and heavy.

I had not looked up the price on line, but I knew I his original asking
price was a good deal, and my offer was a steal. I was feeling a little
guilty so I asked why he was getting rid of them. His wife said he
could buy a bigger set of tool boxes, but he had to sell his old one...
and he had actually bought them at a discount as a return item. I
didn't feel so bad for the price I paid.

After feeling how solid the boxes are and getting them home I looked
them up on line. The regular retail price on the pair (399.99 + 299.99)
is quite a lot more than I expected. About what I paid for the two
Yukon boxes I ordered the other day. Even if you waited for the extra
rare big discount coupons (that usually exclude tool boxes anyway) I
stole those tool boxes.

I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts. It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench. I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough. Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v4siak$1f893$***@dont-email.me...

I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts. It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench. I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough. Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.

Bob La Londe

---------------------------

Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70 Sharps or
original Trapdoor?

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70 Sharps
or original Trapdoor?

Powder or lead fouling ? Have you tried triple 7 ? A little hotter
than BP but it burns pretty clean and the residue isn't as corrosive as
the real thing . Are you casting your own slugs ? Gas checks ?

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

  Powder or lead fouling ? Have you tried triple 7 ?

Ha! You beat me to it.

A little hotter

than BP but it burns pretty clean and the residue isn't as corrosive as
the real thing . Are you casting your own slugs ? Gas checks ?

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70 Sharps
or original Trapdoor?

Triple 7 is about as good as there is. Its very marginally more
powerful than PB, but a spacer of some kind to fill the case will work
just fine. In cap and ball you just drop the powder load a little and
work up to what you want.

I've heard good things about Blackhorn 209, but its a lot more
expensive, and some states will not accept it as a BP substitute for BP
only hunts.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70 Sharps
or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up some
loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your own copy
than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up some
loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your own copy
than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

On page 308 of the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Reloading Manual, where
the cartridge data begins it says, "All loads are measured by volume.
All loads completely fill the case and are compressed by the bullet
1/16th inch. If a wad is to be used beneath the bullet base, loads
should be adjusted to give the same 1/16th inch compression."

This is what I thought. You can get over pressure with black powder if
it is loose in the cartridge / chamber. That is why muzzle loaders try
to always be careful to fully seat the bullet (and patch) against the
charge. Failing to do so can result in ruptures in old weak guns and
bulges even in newer reproduction guns. Yes, even with an otherwise
correct charge.

I do not know if Triple 7 is subject to the same issues, but except for
being slightly hotter its a direct replacement. It should be used the
same except for adjusting the volume down and adding a spacer or wad to
get the muzzle velocity you normally would with a similar BP load.

I'd been looking into this for possible use in reloading 32SW. 32SW
Long is still available and I may be able to order 32SW Long brass and
cut it down for those old vest 32s. There are also modern powder loads
for 32SW and 32SW long, but I don't want to wind up with 50 different
powders on the shelf.

I can look in my other manuals to see if there is a modern powder load
for your cartridge, but you asked about BP sub. Triple 7 would be my
first choice.

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up some
loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your own copy
than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

Hodgdons has a BP loading chart on their website . I don't know if it
covers BP metallic cartridges though . I was looking for load data for
1860 Remington reproduction cap-n-ball revolvers .

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up some
loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your own
copy than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

  Hodgdons has a BP loading chart on their website . I don't know if it
covers BP metallic cartridges though . I was looking for load data for
1860 Remington reproduction cap-n-ball revolvers .

The Lyman book shows 44 revolver from 20-35gr with round ball, and from
20-30 with conical slugs. 1860 Remington army is typically a 44 cal,
and you shave .451 bullets into it.

If you are target shooting short to medium range I'd start at 20 if your
lever arm will push them in deep enough. Less powder means less
fouling, although with BP that may be a distinction without a difference.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v4t0ca$1gisa$***@dont-email.me...

The Lyman book shows 44 revolver from 20-35gr with round ball, and from
20-30 with conical slugs. 1860 Remington army is typically a 44 cal,
and you shave .451 bullets into it.

If you are target shooting short to medium range I'd start at 20 if your
lever arm will push them in deep enough. Less powder means less
fouling, although with BP that may be a distinction without a difference.
Bob La Londe

-------------------------------

I have a repro Colt 1851 Navy, 36 caliber, and settled on 15 grains of BP
for making the powder flask to dispense the target load.

Apparently .36 caliber is 100 balls per pound of lead and .44 is 50.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/round-balls-per-pound.127/

After re-reading a bit of African Rifles and Cartridges I was searching for
the reason for the British .577 caliber; it's 25 per pound.
Good book! He tells a little story to go with each caliber, like Suddenly a
rhino burst from the grass beside the trail and I fired into it from a foot
away... Some are about other hunters who lost the fight.

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up
some loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your
own copy than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

   Hodgdons has a BP loading chart on their website . I don't know if
it covers BP metallic cartridges though . I was looking for load data
for 1860 Remington reproduction cap-n-ball revolvers .

The Lyman book shows 44 revolver from 20-35gr with round ball, and from
20-30 with conical slugs.  1860 Remington army is typically a 44 cal,
and you shave .451 bullets into it.
If you are target shooting short to medium range I'd start at 20 if your
lever arm will push them in deep enough.  Less powder means less
fouling, although with BP that may be a distinction without a difference.

One's a .36 Navy , the other is a .44 Army . Both were built from kits
, the .36 by me and the .44 by my father . It's been a long time since
these have been fired , but I seem to recall filling the chambers level
full and pressing a ball in flush - or a bit below . I need to replace
the hand on the .36 , I damaged it when I built it and it's never been
quite right . Got a new hand , just haven't taken time to fit it .

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up
some loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your
own copy than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

   Hodgdons has a BP loading chart on their website . I don't know if
it covers BP metallic cartridges though . I was looking for load data
for 1860 Remington reproduction cap-n-ball revolvers .

The Lyman book shows 44 revolver from 20-35gr with round ball, and
from 20-30 with conical slugs.  1860 Remington army is typically a 44
cal, and you shave .451 bullets into it.
If you are target shooting short to medium range I'd start at 20 if
your lever arm will push them in deep enough.  Less powder means less
fouling, although with BP that may be a distinction without a difference.

 One's a .36 Navy , the other is a .44 Army . Both were built from kits
, the .36 by me and the .44 by my father . It's been a long time since
these have been fired , but I seem to recall filling the chambers level
full and pressing a ball in flush - or a bit below . I need to replace
the hand on the .36 , I damaged it when I built it and it's never been
quite right . Got a new hand , just haven't taken time to fit it .

I did that the last time I shot C&B revolvers, and I recall the fouling
was pretty horrible. That was using Goex, but the first thing the BP
revolver groups said was too much powder. The second was Goex produces
a lot of fouling.

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
Do you know a good non-fouling target load for a "BP-only" 45-70
Sharps or original Trapdoor?

I do have a BP loading manual somewhere that I can use to look up
some loads if you like, but you may be more comfortable buying your
own copy than taking the word of "some guy on the Internet."

   Hodgdons has a BP loading chart on their website . I don't know
if it covers BP metallic cartridges though . I was looking for load
data for 1860 Remington reproduction cap-n-ball revolvers .

The Lyman book shows 44 revolver from 20-35gr with round ball, and
from 20-30 with conical slugs.  1860 Remington army is typically a 44
cal, and you shave .451 bullets into it.
If you are target shooting short to medium range I'd start at 20 if
your lever arm will push them in deep enough.  Less powder means less
fouling, although with BP that may be a distinction without a difference.

  One's a .36 Navy , the other is a .44 Army . Both were built from
kits , the .36 by me and the .44 by my father . It's been a long time
since these have been fired , but I seem to recall filling the
chambers level full and pressing a ball in flush - or a bit below . I
need to replace the hand on the .36 , I damaged it when I built it and
it's never been quite right . Got a new hand , just haven't taken time
to fit it .

I did that the last time I shot C&B revolvers, and I recall the fouling
was pretty horrible.  That was using Goex, but the first thing the BP
revolver groups said was too much powder.  The second was Goex produces
a lot of fouling.

I downloaded the Hodgdens BP data , I think I'll start with around 25
gr for the .36 and 30 for the .44 . I'll start with the Pyrodex P , then
try the 777 FFF .
A question since you have gunsmithing experience . This .36 Navy
revolver has always shot about the width of the front sight to the left
. The octagonal barrel is not clocked precisely to the frame , if I can
rotate the barrel just enough to bring it into alignment it will also
correct the windage . How big a deal is this to do ? One thing - the
finish on this revolver (and my CVA .50 Plains Rifle) is straight out of
the Browning Arms tanks in SLC , courtesy of my friend since childhood ,
The MudShark . Muddy was killed in a motorcycle accident a few years ago
and I'd rather leave it the way it is rather than risk damage to the
finish .

[Jim Wilkins]

"Snag" wrote in message news:v4vlq8$26dqj$***@dont-email.me...

I downloaded the Hodgdens BP data , I think I'll start with around 25
gr for the .36 and 30 for the .44 . I'll start with the Pyrodex P , then
try the 777 FFF .
A question since you have gunsmithing experience . This .36 Navy
revolver has always shot about the width of the front sight to the left
. The octagonal barrel is not clocked precisely to the frame , if I can
rotate the barrel just enough to bring it into alignment it will also
correct the windage . How big a deal is this to do ? One thing - the
finish on this revolver (and my CVA .50 Plains Rifle) is straight out of
the Browning Arms tanks in SLC , courtesy of my friend since childhood ,
The MudShark . Muddy was killed in a motorcycle accident a few years ago
and I'd rather leave it the way it is rather than risk damage to the
finish .
Snag
--------------------------------
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/barrel-vise-pads.3922783/

[Bob La Londe]

  A question since you have gunsmithing experience . This .36 Navy
revolver has always shot about the width of the front sight to the left
. The octagonal barrel is not clocked precisely to the frame , if I can
rotate the barrel just enough to bring it into alignment it will also
correct the windage . How big a deal is this to do ? One thing - the
finish on this revolver (and my CVA .50 Plains Rifle) is straight out of
the Browning Arms tanks in SLC , courtesy of my friend since childhood ,
The MudShark . Muddy was killed in a motorcycle accident a few years ago
and I'd rather leave it the way it is rather than risk damage to the
finish .

First off. I hack at my own stuff more so than I am any kind of
gunsmith or have any real gunsmithing experience. Mostly I make parts
and I replace parts.

There is a lot to unpack in that question. Exactly how do you plan to
twist it all?

If I recall in the old CVA imported kit guns (I built a .36 Navy when I
was a kid) there are pins in the front of the frame that align with
holes in the barrel assembly. While not a wide stance it is a 3 point
alignment with the cylinder pin.

I suppose if you can twist that assembly you will be changing the
position of the front site in relation to the rear site. In that
respect its no different than adjusting adjustable sights. Well other
than being harder and less predictable since you will be moving both the
sight and the bore.

The first thing I would do is check the alignment of everything.
Just look everything over and make sure everything looks straight and
even. If anything is out find out why and see if you can fix that.

Then took a look down the bore and see if your timing is right. That
might be hard to see, so if you have access to a bore scope you might
pull a nipple, and look in from the back with the hammer in full cock or
removed. If not you can try to "feel" it with a stiff wire hook tool
from the front

These kit guns vary from one series and maker to the next. If its got a
blade front it might be just as easy to bend the front blade that much.
Or maybe you can work the hammer notch over... which would require
re-bluing.

Often its about what you are willing to accept to get what you want.

Recently I repainted the sight holes on a Norinco 1911A1 for the owner.
Norincos are somewhat collectable since their import ban in the early
90s when they were accused of selling rocket launchers to LA gangs
(probably was made up for political expedience). I didn't want to
refinish the gun, so after spending a lot of time cleaning out the old
paint i polished on the back flat of the sights, and then reblued those
surfaces only before putting new nail polish in the holes. The owner is
quite happy. I told him I had to reblue it and he cringed, but after
looking it over he asked... "Where?" That's what I was going for.

Yeah, soft jaws are really handy if you need to reef on something.
Leather padded plywood jaws are one of my favorites. Prismatic jaws are
handy for somethings too, but simple leather padded wood works for
90-99% of the things you are likely to need to reef on.

This is all just my opinion based on my thoughts and my experiences, and
as Paul Harrell would say I have no illusions that my thoughts are
housed in a mind of greatness. LOL

Paul is a fun, entertaining, and educational GunTuber who unfortunately
is dying cancer. There was a big push to get his channel up to over a
million subscribers before he died. Its over a million subscribers.

If you want to see some great restoration and repair videos check out
Mark Novak. He covers rust bluing, spring making, and a host of other
interesting topics.

[Snag]

   A question since you have gunsmithing experience . This .36 Navy
revolver has always shot about the width of the front sight to the
left . The octagonal barrel is not clocked precisely to the frame , if
I can rotate the barrel just enough to bring it into alignment it will
also correct the windage . How big a deal is this to do ? One thing -
the finish on this revolver (and my CVA .50 Plains Rifle) is straight
out of the Browning Arms tanks in SLC , courtesy of my friend since
childhood , The MudShark . Muddy was killed in a motorcycle accident a
few years ago and I'd rather leave it the way it is rather than risk
damage to the finish .

First off.  I hack at my own stuff more so than I am any kind of
gunsmith or have any real gunsmithing experience.  Mostly I make parts
and I replace parts.
There is a lot to unpack in that question.  Exactly how do you plan to
twist it all?
If I recall in the old CVA imported kit guns (I built a .36 Navy when I
was a kid) there are pins in the front of the frame that align with
holes in the barrel assembly.  While not a wide stance it is a 3 point
alignment with the cylinder pin.

This one was built from a Navy Arms kit , around 1975 or 76 . The
barrel is threaded into the frame or I wouldn't be asking ... the barrel
is not quite tightened to the point that the vertical flats are parallel
to the vertical sides of the frame .

I suppose if you can twist that assembly you will be changing the
position of the front site in relation to the rear site.  In that
respect its no different than adjusting adjustable sights.  Well other
than being harder and less predictable since you will be moving both the
sight and the bore.
The first thing I would do is check the alignment of everything.
Just look everything over and make sure everything looks straight and
even.  If anything is out find out why and see if you can fix that.
Then took a look down the bore and see if your timing is right.  That
might be hard to see, so if you have access to a bore scope you might
pull a nipple, and look in from the back with the hammer in full cock or
removed.  If not you can try to "feel" it with a stiff wire hook tool
from the front

The timing is dead on . The bolt locks up just as the sear engages
the hammer . It's never shaved lead .

These kit guns vary from one series and maker to the next.  If its got a
blade front it might be just as easy to bend the front blade that much.
Or maybe you can work the hammer notch over... which would require
re-bluing.

Repairing this finish is not an option - I forgot to say that it's
browned . The 3 mementos I have of one of the best friends I ever had
are the 2 BP arms he had browned for me when he worked at Browning Arms
and a Buck 110 sheath he gave me because his dog chewed mine up in 1994
when my brother (the dead one , not the tranny) had a massive heart
attack .

Often its about what you are willing to accept to get what you want.
Recently I repainted the sight holes on a Norinco 1911A1 for the owner.
Norincos are somewhat collectable since their import ban in the early
90s when they were accused of selling rocket launchers to LA gangs
(probably was made up for political expedience). I didn't want to
refinish the gun, so after spending a lot of time cleaning out the old
paint i polished on the back flat of the sights, and then reblued those
surfaces only before putting new nail polish in the holes.  The owner is
quite happy.  I told him I had to reblue it and he cringed, but after
looking it over he asked... "Where?"  That's what I was going for.
Yeah, soft jaws are really handy if you need to reef on something.
Leather padded plywood jaws are one of my favorites.  Prismatic jaws are
handy for somethings too, but simple leather padded wood works for
90-99% of the things you are likely to need to reef on.
This is all just my opinion based on my thoughts and my experiences, and
as Paul Harrell would say I have no illusions that my thoughts are
housed in a mind of greatness.   LOL
Paul is a fun, entertaining, and educational GunTuber who unfortunately
is dying cancer.  There was a big push to get his channel up to over a
million subscribers before he died.  Its over a million subscribers.
If you want to see some great restoration and repair videos check out
Mark Novak.  He covers rust bluing, spring making, and a host of other
interesting topics.

I was mostly looking for ideas on holding it - probably by the barrel
- while I used some kind of "wrench" - likely to be a chunk of local
hickory properly shaped for the task - to tighten the frame/barrel a few
degrees to bring the front blade to center over the barrel .

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Snag
A question since you have gunsmithing experience . This .36 Navy
revolver has always shot about the width of the front sight to the
left . The octagonal barrel is not clocked precisely to the frame ,
if I can rotate the barrel just enough to bring it into alignment it
will also correct the windage . How big a deal is this to do ? One
thing - the finish on this revolver (and my CVA .50 Plains Rifle) is
straight out of the Browning Arms tanks in SLC , courtesy of my
friend since childhood , The MudShark . Muddy was killed in a
motorcycle accident a few years ago and I'd rather leave it the way
it is rather than risk damage to the finish .

First off. I hack at my own stuff more so than I am any kind of
gunsmith or have any real gunsmithing experience. Mostly I make parts
and I replace parts.
There is a lot to unpack in that question. Exactly how do you plan to
twist it all?
If I recall in the old CVA imported kit guns (I built a .36 Navy when
I was a kid) there are pins in the front of the frame that align with
holes in the barrel assembly. While not a wide stance it is a 3 point
alignment with the cylinder pin.

This one was built from a Navy Arms kit , around 1975 or 76 . The
barrel is threaded into the frame or I wouldn't be asking ... the barrel
is not quite tightened to the point that the vertical flats are parallel
to the vertical sides of the frame .

Ah, you said Navy and I assumed it was a Navy model. Not an Army (or
other) model made by Navy arms. LOL.

The Colt Navy replicas or just Navy is a half frame. There is no frame
there for the barrel to thread into. Further most of those (even
Confederate Navy models) were .36 caliber. Usually when people say .36
Navy they are referring to a model 1851 Navy.

Side Note You May Already Know:
Although a number of notable lawmen and outlaws of the wild west
probably carried 1851 Navy revolvers, Wild Bill Hickock is probably most
known for carrying a pair of them.

You may well be able to turn the barrel a tiny bit with some serious
muscle. I watched Mike Scherz of Gila River Gun Works (RIP) do just
that with a rifle, although I forget exactly how he gripped on to each
thing exactly. I seem to recall he had a tool that exactly locked into
the action of the rifle he was working on. I've also seen Mike stop,
remove the barrel and throw it back in the lathe to take an almost
invisible shaving off the back face before trying again. I don't recall
why exactly. Maybe it already had a front sight. I don't remember.

In Mike's first shop of his own (Gila River Gun Works) I installed his
alarm system. On a slow day I'd stop in and lean on the railing between
the shop and the machine shop and watch him work. He got a bit of a
reputation for building "guide guns" on the Mauser action, and
eventually moved to Idaho to be closer to the majority of his clientele.
I have a Mauser 30-06 he built in the safe, but its nothing special
except to those of us who knew Mike. He had an action come in with
pitting. He was pissed off and was going to throw it in the trash. I
told him if he set it up with a floating barrel (as much as it can) in
an inexpensive sporting stock I'd buy it for cost plus his labor. That
way he wouldn't lose anything and I'd have a good deer rifle reasonably
cheap. I've had people try to buy that rifle from me after they heard
Mike set it up. I actually took it back once and had him reset the head
space for the ammo I was using. Its not a target rifle, but its better
than the average sporting rifle. Well if you discount the mediocre
stock Mauser trigger. LOL.

Post by Snag
The timing is dead on . The bolt locks up just as the sear engages
the hammer . It's never shaved lead .

Timing isn't just the bolt lockup. Its also the line up of the rifled
portion of the barrel with the chamber. You alluded to that I think
with the comment about shaving lead, but there is a slight cone on the
back of the barrel on many (most?) revolvers which can catch the bullet
if its only slightly out of alignment at lockup and not noticeably shave
lead. This can possibly affect accuracy.

I'm not trying to talk down to you. I don't know how much you know and
I may not know much (any?) more than that.

Post by Snag
I was mostly looking for ideas on holding it - probably by the barrel
- while I used some kind of "wrench" - likely to be a chunk of local
hickory properly shaped for the task - to tighten the frame/barrel a few
degrees to bring the front blade to center over the barrel .

I have a Columbia (Columbian? (I have both)) vise on the back work bench
with a square slide. I have pieces of plywood cut out to just fit
around that, and match the jaws. When I cut plywood jaws I try to cut
several at once, so I can use them without worrying about tearing them
up. A couple with leather glued to them at the top are very handy for
finished parts. I always inspect for stray metal chips and splinters
before using them. I used that vise last year to straighten a smashed
trigger guard on a 32SW Long S&W New Regulation Police by clamping the
frame in the vise, and beating out the trigger guard with a brass drift.

[Snag]

The Colt Navy replicas or just Navy is a half frame.  There is no frame
there for the barrel to thread into.  Further most of those (even
Confederate Navy models) were .36 caliber.  Usually when people say .36
Navy they are referring to a model 1851 Navy.

This one is a Remington , full frame with a top strap - which is why
I chose this one . Dad liked mine so much he got one in .44 - looking at
the box Dad's came in it says "Remington 1858 style steel frame
revolver" . Colts have the barrel retained by a wedge if I understand
correctly .

[Jim Wilkins]

"Snag" wrote in message news:v5002h$285td$***@dont-email.me...

I was mostly looking for ideas on holding it - probably by the barrel
- while I used some kind of "wrench" - likely to be a chunk of local
hickory properly shaped for the task - to tighten the frame/barrel a few
degrees to bring the front blade to center over the barrel .
Snag

---------------------------------
I'm not a gunsmith, but I looked into it and several other skills for hints
on building scientific instruments and lab experiments when I managed a lab
and model shop at Mitre. I think what you want is to buy or make an "action
wrench".

[Snag]

  I was mostly looking for ideas on holding it - probably by the barrel
- while I used some kind of "wrench" - likely to be a chunk of local
hickory properly shaped for the task - to tighten the frame/barrel a few
degrees to bring the front blade to center over the barrel .
Snag
---------------------------------
I'm not a gunsmith, but I looked into it and several other skills for
hints on building scientific instruments and lab experiments when I
managed a lab and model shop at Mitre. I think what you want is to buy
or make an "action wrench".

Just looking at it , The barrel being octagon I can put it in my mill
vise with some padding . Using a wrench on the barrel is almost
certainly going to damage the finish . A nice sized chunk of hickory
with a couple of notches to engage the frame top and bottom straps might
be stout enough to rotate the frame - or maybe not .

[Bob La Londe]

   I was mostly looking for ideas on holding it - probably by the barrel
- while I used some kind of "wrench" - likely to be a chunk of local
hickory properly shaped for the task - to tighten the frame/barrel a few
degrees to bring the front blade to center over the barrel .
Snag
---------------------------------
I'm not a gunsmith, but I looked into it and several other skills for
hints on building scientific instruments and lab experiments when I
managed a lab and model shop at Mitre. I think what you want is to buy
or make an "action wrench".

  Just looking at it , The barrel being octagon I can put it in my mill
vise with some padding . Using a wrench on the barrel is almost
certainly going to damage the finish . A nice sized chunk of hickory
with a couple of notches to engage the frame top and bottom straps might
be stout enough to rotate the frame - or maybe not .

A mill vise will probably work, but I never have one mounted anywhere
other than a mill table. I like the bench vise (very heavy steel bench)
for this sort of work because I have it on the corner where I can work
all the way around a part.

Someday when I have a layout and assembly table that doesn't suffer from
HSD (Horizontal Surface Disease) I may mount both a bench vise and a
mill vise on the table for different things. A mill vise is better for
things like a hydraulic tapping arm if I ever decide I need one.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Snag
Just looking at it , The barrel being octagon I can put it in my mill
vise with some padding . Using a wrench on the barrel is almost certainly
going to damage the finish . A nice sized chunk of hickory with a couple
of notches to engage the frame top and bottom straps might be stout enough
to rotate the frame - or maybe not .

A mill vise will probably work, but I never have one mounted anywhere
other than a mill table. I like the bench vise (very heavy steel bench)
for this sort of work because I have it on the corner where I can work
all the way around a part.

Someday when I have a layout and assembly table that doesn't suffer from
HSD (Horizontal Surface Disease) I may mount both a bench vise and a
mill vise on the table for different things. A mill vise is better for
things like a hydraulic tapping arm if I ever decide I need one.
Bob La Londe
----------------------------------------

Somewhere I saw a suggestion of a pipe vise bolted to a heavy timber for
unscrewing things that required a lot of torque and custom machined jaw
inserts.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe

   Just looking at it , The barrel being octagon I can put it in my
mill vise with some padding . Using a wrench on the barrel is almost
certainly going to damage the finish . A nice sized chunk of hickory
with a couple of notches to engage the frame top and bottom straps
might be stout enough to rotate the frame - or maybe not .

A mill vise will probably work, but I never have one mounted anywhere
other than a mill table.  I like the bench vise (very heavy steel bench)
for this sort of work because I have it on the corner where I can work
all the way around a part.
Someday when I have a layout and assembly table that doesn't suffer from
HSD (Horizontal Surface Disease) I may mount both a bench vise and a
mill vise on the table for different things.  A mill vise is better for
things like a hydraulic tapping arm if I ever decide I need one.
Bob La Londe
----------------------------------------
Somewhere I saw a suggestion of a pipe vise bolted to a heavy timber for
unscrewing things that required a lot of torque and custom machined jaw
inserts.

A pipe vise is awesome for holding, but he wants to create zero cosmetic
damage. Pipe jaws in a bench vise, or the chain style pipe vise will
both dig in. I'm not even sure I'd risk prismatic aluminum soft jaws
for the zero chance of cosmetic damage he is going for. I'd go straight
to the leather surfaced plywood vise jaw liners.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v54iph$3a24m$***@dont-email.me...

On 6/21/2024 11:57 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

A pipe vise is awesome for holding, but he wants to create zero cosmetic
damage. Pipe jaws in a bench vise, or the chain style pipe vise will
both dig in. I'm not even sure I'd risk prismatic aluminum soft jaws
for the zero chance of cosmetic damage he is going for. I'd go straight
to the leather surfaced plywood vise jaw liners.
Bob La Londe

--------------------------------

You made me look through my library. In a Ruger SA shop manual that I hadn't
even unwrapped Jerry Kuhnhausen suggests barrel vise inserts cast to fit
from Brownells Steel Bed compound, with powdered rosin (for baseball
pitchers) to increase grip. Optionally the barrel can be padded with paper
shims, also sprinkled with rosin.

The barrel vise shown is a hydraulic jack within a large U bolt frame,
pressing on a 3" x 3" x 3" split block with a hole for the barrel-specific
insert sleeve, also 3" long to spread the pressure and not deform the
barrel.

The barrel should turn 30 to 45 degrees after contact.

He suggests Delrin frame wrench inserts in a Maryland Gun Works revolver
frame wrench from Brownells. He does NOT recommend an axe handle through the
frame, as old timers used to do with the Colt SAA.

The manual does not appear to assume you have a machine shop. He mentions
that now you can buy the tools that older gunsmiths / machinists had to make
themselves. I found more useful info in older books that assume you need to
make, harden and temper springs etc.

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe

   Just looking at it , The barrel being octagon I can put it in my
mill vise with some padding . Using a wrench on the barrel is almost
certainly going to damage the finish . A nice sized chunk of hickory
with a couple of notches to engage the frame top and bottom straps
might be stout enough to rotate the frame - or maybe not .

A mill vise will probably work, but I never have one mounted anywhere
other than a mill table.  I like the bench vise (very heavy steel bench)
for this sort of work because I have it on the corner where I can work
all the way around a part.
Someday when I have a layout and assembly table that doesn't suffer from
HSD (Horizontal Surface Disease) I may mount both a bench vise and a
mill vise on the table for different things.  A mill vise is better for
things like a hydraulic tapping arm if I ever decide I need one.
Bob La Londe
----------------------------------------
Somewhere I saw a suggestion of a pipe vise bolted to a heavy timber
for unscrewing things that required a lot of torque and custom
machined jaw inserts.

A pipe vise is awesome for holding, but he wants to create zero cosmetic
damage.  Pipe jaws in a bench vise, or the chain style pipe vise will
both dig in.  I'm not even sure I'd risk prismatic aluminum soft jaws
for the zero chance of cosmetic damage he is going for.  I'd go straight
to the leather surfaced plywood vise jaw liners.

If I'm going with plywood/leather jaws I might as well use the
regular vise . It's bolted to a stool but easily held down with a foot
bracing on a rung of the stool . Mill vise is currently under the mill
table . I've got an Arctic Cat 600 vertical twin cylinder block on the
mill . We're boring out the cylinders for new sleeves , he's making it
into a 660 ... and putting a belt drive blower on it . Gonna be wild .

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe

   Just looking at it , The barrel being octagon I can put it in my
mill vise with some padding . Using a wrench on the barrel is almost
certainly going to damage the finish . A nice sized chunk of hickory
with a couple of notches to engage the frame top and bottom straps
might be stout enough to rotate the frame - or maybe not .

A mill vise will probably work, but I never have one mounted anywhere
other than a mill table.  I like the bench vise (very heavy steel bench)
for this sort of work because I have it on the corner where I can work
all the way around a part.
Someday when I have a layout and assembly table that doesn't suffer from
HSD (Horizontal Surface Disease) I may mount both a bench vise and a
mill vise on the table for different things.  A mill vise is better for
things like a hydraulic tapping arm if I ever decide I need one.
Bob La Londe
----------------------------------------
Somewhere I saw a suggestion of a pipe vise bolted to a heavy timber
for unscrewing things that required a lot of torque and custom
machined jaw inserts.

A pipe vise is awesome for holding, but he wants to create zero
cosmetic damage.  Pipe jaws in a bench vise, or the chain style pipe
vise will both dig in.  I'm not even sure I'd risk prismatic aluminum
soft jaws for the zero chance of cosmetic damage he is going for.  I'd
go straight to the leather surfaced plywood vise jaw liners.

  If I'm going with plywood/leather jaws I might as well use the
regular vise . It's bolted to a stool but easily held down with a foot
bracing on a rung of the stool . Mill vise is currently under the mill
table . I've got an Arctic Cat 600 vertical twin cylinder block on the
mill . We're boring out the cylinders for new sleeves , he's making it
into a 660 ... and putting a belt drive blower on it . Gonna be wild .

It might work. If kid you tightened it down the first time adult you
might be able to tighten it a little more. BUT: I think putting your
foot on a vise stand is a bit optimistic. I'm fairly heavy, but I don't
think I could get enough leverage against myself that way to make a
significant movement. I could be wrong of course, but when I need to
move something I use the vise that's mounted to the 9 foot heavy steel
(1/4" top and c channel frame and legs) work bench. Not the one that's
bolted to the heavy butcher block top bench.

Its funny. That vise belonged to my friend John Apple, and before that
to his dad Lewis Apple (RIP). John called me up one day and said I
could have the vise because he was moving to Tennessee, and he didn't
want to haul it. When he got there he said I could have the vise, but I
had to take the bench and everything under it too. I still have boxes
out back of the shop getting water and sun damaged I haven't finished
sorting through.

P.S. Lewis was the one who came up with the plywood jaws for that vise,
and John was the one that showed them to me. I figured out the addition
of leather with contact cement (3M77) myself for more "delicate" parts.
I usually used whatever I had handy, not always plywood, to make those
wood jaws. Right now I think I have MDF jaws laying next to the vise.
I consider them consumable. Lewis was a retired fire fighter (medical),
cabinet builder, and fine furniture restorer. I hesitate to think the
small fortune in wood that went to the dumpster or somebody's fireplace
when he moved out of his compound and gave up his big shop. He sold it
at the peak of the real estate bubble in 2004 so he did okay.

P.P.S. I just ordered a fresh piece of leather from Tandy to make some
new leather jaws, and a couple strops (3 micron and 1 micron diamond).

[Snag]

I saw a couple US General tool boxes listed on Nextdoor for $200.  It
didn't say "firm" or anything like that so I made an offer of $150 and
didn't hear back.  A couple days later I sent a message asking, "Are
these still available."  (I hate that auto message, but in this case it
seemed suitable.)  I would have paid $200, but since he didn't say firm...
Shortly after my second message I received a message apologizing for not
getting back with me and accepting my offer of $150.
For those who don't know US General is a Harbor Freight brand.  I have a
couple a couple or three tool carts with drawers int he back for tool
carts for manual machine tools.  They don't quite have enough space,
which is why I ordered the Yukon boxes I talked about in Snag's tool
score post.  They are decent, and have held up fairly well.  I thought I
knew what to expect.
In person the US General toolboxes were better built than the tool carts
I have.  I never really looked at them close in the store.  The top box
was a lot heavier than I expected, and very solid feeling.  More so than
most.  The bottom roller cabinet was also similarly solid and heavy.
I had not looked up the price on line, but I knew I his original asking
price was a good deal, and my offer was a steal.  I was feeling a little
guilty so I asked why he was getting rid of them.  His wife said he
could buy a bigger set of tool boxes, but he had to sell his old one...
and he had actually bought them at a discount as a return item.  I
didn't feel so bad for the price I paid.
After feeling how solid the boxes are and getting them home I looked
them up on line.  The regular retail price on the pair (399.99 + 299.99)
is quite a lot more than I expected.  About what I paid for the two
Yukon boxes I ordered the other day.  Even if you waited for the extra
rare big discount coupons (that usually exclude tool boxes anyway) I
stole those tool boxes.
I plan to use this set just for gunsmith only tools, cleaning supplies,
and parts.  It will clean out several drawers and a couple square feet
of surface on my front office work bench.  I may put some reloading
supplies and a couple presses in it as well if the bottom drawers are
deep enough.  Well, until I get the file cabinets out of the file room,
and get a proper work bench built in that room.

Nice play on words , Bob ! Sounds like your score is as good as mine .