LHT-25B - Small Turret Lathe

[Bob La Londe]

On 10/18/2021 6:37 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

(My server didn't save the contents of that old post)

Wow! Its been a while. I finally made a place for it, cleaned up a
path, moved it, and jacked it down off the furniture movers its been
sitting on all this time. I hope I haven't used the place on the wall
where I hang the furniture movers for something else.

It was a little bit of a chore. I took out a barrel of chips so the
furniture movers would roll. Then I gathered up some blocks to crib it
up and down. When I had set the first set of blocks under the lathe I
discovered it had leveling bolts. They had just been screwed up flush.
I screwed them down on the light end and set them on aluminum pads.
When I started on the heavy end I found one of them was missing. Of
course 9/16-12 is not a common size I keep in my hardware supply. I
stuck a smaller bolt through the hole and put a nut on the bottom to
make it adjustable. I didn't want to leave it hanging on the toe jacks
or setting on wood blocks.

After I got it set down on the bolts (on aluminum pads, I discovered two
of them are stripped out. It teetered back and forth on the other two
like me after a long weekend when I was in my 20s.

During this I ordered some 9/16-12 bolts from McMaster, fortunately
along with some nuts and heavy washers.

I also ordered a small cheap static (electronic) phase converter for it.
I'm going to try and run it just like it was designed. If I don't
like that I can always swap in a VFD at a later time.

Who knows Snag. I might actually have to start looking for a chuck soon
for that arbor I got from you. I'll mostly run standard 5C collets, but
having a chuck may save the day at some point. The lathe did also come
with an unused/uncut pie collet. I'm not sure if I am looking forward
to the day when that is the answer to a problem or not.

Made a place for it: That was really kind of good/bad thing. Some
years back Grizzly had a sale on a 3 phase (internal VFD) vertical
bandsaw. They titled it (optimistically) as a wood and metal cutting
saw. Technically it would cut metal, like almost all wood working tools
can cut aluminum. It had nearly zero torque at steel cutting SFM. I did
cut a couple pieces of steel with it, but it was torturous. For the
last few years I've done any vertical metal cutting by tipping up one of
the horizontals. I had the vertical bandsaw listed on Facebook market
place off and on for years, and I really begrudged the space it was
taking up. Finally somebody offered me half what I paid for it, and I
snapped it up. I didn't really think of it at the time, but it turned
out to probably be the best place in the shop for that turret lathe... a
barrel and a half of chips later. Thank goodness for scoop shovels.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:vnp9i2$sm3o$***@dont-email.me...

... I'll mostly run standard 5C collets, but
having a chuck may save the day at some point. The lathe did also come
with an unused/uncut pie collet. I'm not sure if I am looking forward
to the day when that is the answer to a problem or not.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--------
My limited experience with 5C pot collets is that all but the shortest
tubing, bushings etc should be held in axially as well by the tailstock,
perhaps with a pipe center or large fender washer, and trimmed to length in
the better restrained grip of a 6-jaw. I save hole saw and Greenlee cutouts
for such purposes.

I was given a "Precise SC 42" CNC spindle by a scrap dealer. Fischer USA
emailed me the manual for it, which assumes it's connected to their
controller and doesn't mention the motor drive specs. Do you have any
experience or suggestions concerning their electrical requirements? I'd be
mounting it on the lathe in a milling attachment to do the indexed milling /
drilling on large chucked work that I presently do on smaller pieces in a
collet fixture on the mill.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Jim Wilkins
... I'll mostly run standard 5C collets, but
having a chuck may save the day at some point.  The lathe did also come
with an unused/uncut pie collet.  I'm not sure if I am looking forward
to the day when that is the answer to a problem or not.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
-------- My limited experience with 5C pot collets is that all but the
shortest tubing, bushings etc should be held in axially as well by the
tailstock, perhaps with a pipe center or large fender washer, and
trimmed to length in the better restrained grip of a 6-jaw. I save hole
saw and Greenlee cutouts for such purposes.

Most turret lathes don't have a proper tailstock. The turret is the
tail stocks. That being said I "also" have a removable tailstock turret
I use in the little 8.5x18 Harbor Freight lathe. I do have a proper
set-tru 6 jaw that I almost always leave on the 14x40 Precision Mathews.

Post by Jim Wilkins
I was given a "Precise SC 42" CNC spindle by a scrap dealer. Fischer USA
emailed me the manual for it, which assumes it's connected to their
controller and doesn't mention the motor drive specs.

I don't really know what that is? Picture? Sounds like a small high
speed high frequency 3 phase spindle from what I have read.

Post by Jim Wilkins
Do you have any
experience or suggestions concerning their electrical requirements?

Base voltage is probably at max frequency, but I wouldn't know for sure.
For example most of my high speed spindles are 230V at 400hz. You can
probably get that from the manual. I only found a couple mentions on
line with queries similar to yours. If you are not sure of the wires
its pretty simple to find out. If it has four wires one of them is
likely case ground and the other three are the legs of the windings.
After that you would need to find rotation. There is a meter that can
help you find phase rotation. I have one, but I don't know how to use
that feature. I've always just the power on and off with any 3 phase
motor and if it runs backwards swapped any two leg leads.

Since I can't find specific information on exactly what it is I have to
guess that if there are other leads they would be for overheat sensor,
collet closed sensor, etc.

!!!Caution!!! Some high speed spindles caution that you can damage them
by running them backwards. (and of course you can damage some kinds of
pumps if run backwards.)

Post by Jim Wilkins
I'd
be mounting it on the lathe in a milling attachment to do the indexed
milling / drilling on large chucked work that I presently do on smaller
pieces in a collet fixture on the mill.

I probably should make/finish a side milling spindle for the bigger
lathe one of these days.. and some indexing discs to go on the outboard
side.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins
I was given a "Precise SC 42" CNC spindle by a scrap dealer.

While digging around I found a shop-made Dremel adapter that fits the tool
holder on the AA lathe for grinding, and I'd forgotten modifying it to also
go on the SB, so I don't need to make the 1/8" capacity CNC spindle work.
The Dremel can spot drill indexed holes to locate and complete on the mill.

The lathe indexing disk is similar to this, bored to fit behind a thread-on
chuck or 5C spindle thread protector.
https://www.amazon.com/Lathe-Dividing-Plate-Indexing-Dividend/dp/B0D5NF5T8Y

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Jim Wilkins
I was given a "Precise SC 42" CNC spindle by a scrap dealer.

While digging around I found a shop-made Dremel adapter that fits the
tool holder on the AA lathe for grinding, and I'd forgotten modifying it
to also go on the SB, so I don't need to make the 1/8" capacity CNC
spindle work. The Dremel can spot drill indexed holes to locate and
complete on the mill.
The lathe indexing disk is similar to this, bored to fit behind a
thread-on chuck or 5C spindle thread protector.
https://www.amazon.com/Lathe-Dividing-Plate-Indexing-Dividend/dp/B0D5NF5T8Y

I'd want to index most on my 14x40 which has a D1-5 Spindle nose. I
can't put anything between that and the adapter plate. Technically I
could put something between an adapter plate and a chuck, but I would
prefer to index at the back of the head where it is completely out of
the way. I need to make a spider for it someday as well. Probably make
both setups at the same time. I'd just CNC the indexing plate on one of
the mills for whatever I needed. I am sure it will be "close enough."
If I need to try to chase decimal plates I might make it on the big
manual knee mill with the DRO instead. I don't know how I would QC it
though. I guess the end part would have to be the QC.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins
https://www.amazon.com/Lathe-Dividing-Plate-Indexing-Dividend/dp/B0D5NF5T8Y

I'd want to index most on my 14x40 which has a D1-5 Spindle nose. I
can't put anything between that and the adapter plate. Technically I
could put something between an adapter plate and a chuck, but I would
prefer to index at the back of the head where it is completely out of
the way. I need to make a spider for it someday as well. Probably make
both setups at the same time. I'd just CNC the indexing plate on one of
the mills for whatever I needed. I am sure it will be "close enough."
If I need to try to chase decimal plates I might make it on the big
manual knee mill with the DRO instead. I don't know how I would QC it
though. I guess the end part would have to be the QC.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

-----------------------------------------

I seriously considered drilling index holes in the rim of the backplates if
I could mount them on my dividing head accurately enough. The 4" and smaller
chucks on 5C mounts can index in milling fixtures. A larger diameter index
disk with an alignment recess could be screwed to a D1-5 backplate.

5C chuck mounts, listed under 5C instead of backplates:
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5479&category=-199764519

The spiders I made clamp onto only the work piece, not the spindle, which
makes them simple and non burring on the spindle, though possibly dangerous
on a faster lathe. One slips over the spindle end, the other into the collet
closer tube. The collet closer spider is a self-centering bored-out 1/2"
Multicraft chuck. The nose end fits into the tube and pins pressed into the
key holes allow tightening. Shafts larger than 1/2" don't whip at the low
speed of my 60 year old lathe .

I needed to index 68 for a steering sector gear and 13 for a motorcycle
drive sprocket, neither matching an index disk. I used a 52 tooth change
gear from the AA lathe for 13, and cut the spline slots slightly too narrow
so the hardened sprocket shaved them to a snug press fit.

I think the QC process for an index disk is to turn two pins to a light
press fit in the holes and measure across adjacent pairs of them with your
best mike, similar to using toolmakers buttons for jig boring accuracy. Only
the differences between measurements matters.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Jim Wilkins
https://www.amazon.com/Lathe-Dividing-Plate-Indexing-Dividend/dp/
B0D5NF5T8Y

I'd want to index most on my 14x40 which has a D1-5 Spindle nose.  I
can't put anything between that and the adapter plate.  Technically I
could put something between an adapter plate and a chuck, but I would
prefer to index at the back of the head where it is completely out of
the way.  I need to make a spider for it someday as well.  Probably make
both setups at the same time.  I'd just CNC the indexing plate on one of
the mills for whatever I needed.  I am sure it will be "close enough."
If I need to try to chase decimal plates I might make it on the big
manual knee mill with the DRO instead.  I don't know how I would QC it
though.  I guess the end part would have to be the QC.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
-----------------------------------------
I seriously considered drilling index holes in the rim of the backplates
if I could mount them on my dividing head accurately enough. The 4" and
smaller chucks on 5C mounts can index in milling fixtures. A larger
diameter index disk with an alignment recess could be screwed to a D1-5
backplate.
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?
ProductID=5479&category=-199764519
The spiders I made clamp onto only the work piece, not the spindle,
which makes them simple and non burring on the spindle, though possibly
dangerous on a faster lathe. One slips over the spindle end, the other
into the collet closer tube. The collet closer spider is a self-
centering bored-out 1/2" Multicraft chuck. The nose end fits into the
tube and pins pressed into the key holes allow tightening. Shafts larger
than 1/2" don't whip at the low speed of my 60 year old lathe .
I needed to index 68 for a steering sector gear and 13 for a motorcycle
drive sprocket, neither matching an index disk. I used a 52 tooth change
gear from the AA lathe for 13, and cut the spline slots slightly too
narrow so the hardened sprocket shaved them to a snug press fit.
I think the QC process for an index disk is to turn two pins to a light
press fit in the holes and measure across adjacent pairs of them with
your best mike, similar to using toolmakers buttons for jig boring
accuracy. Only the differences between measurements matters.

I don't see why it would any any harder to indicate in than anything
else you put on it. Face up, and indicate in center of rotation of
disc. Face right (or left) and indicate in perpendicular to travel.
Indicate center with half function. Drill, ream, rotate, Drill, ream,
rotate,Drill, ream, rotate... it wouldn't be hard. Just tedious.

USE A STUB (screw machine length) DRILL.

You have an Indicol (or clone or home made holder) and a test indicator
right?

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:vnuhr0$23q2d$***@dont-email.me...

You have an Indicol (or clone or home made holder) and a test indicator
right?

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
You have an Indicol (or clone or home made holder) and a test indicator
right?
--
Bob La Londe
---------------------------
I have a shop-made indicator holder customized to the Clausing's spindle
diameter and a B&S BesTest graduated to 0.00005". Mostly they tell me
that my machines are very old.

You can make fairly accurate parts on a sloppy machine. DROs and gibb
locks help a lot with that.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins
I seriously considered drilling index holes in the rim of the backplates
if I could mount them on my dividing head accurately enough.

I don't see why it would any any harder to indicate in than anything
else you put on it. Face up, and indicate in center of rotation of
disc. Face right (or left) and indicate in perpendicular to travel.
Indicate center with half function. Drill, ream, rotate, Drill, ream,
rotate,Drill, ream, rotate... it wouldn't be hard. Just tedious.

USE A STUB (screw machine length) DRILL.

You have an Indicol (or clone or home made holder) and a test indicator
right?
--
Bob La Londe

--------------------------------------

The issue isn't indicating, it's clamping a large threaded backplate (or
similar) to my hobby-sized indexing equipment. The Clausing's spindle to
table clearance limits the height of work pieces and table accessories. I
located the old sector gear for setup and then the blank for cutting on a
1/2" centering plug before bolting them to the rotary table. I milled the
teeth on it horizontally, at its center height.

A Clausing is very nice for making -small- parts. An RF-31 has a larger work
envelope. This is the upgraded model with a taller column. Notice that it's
drilling with a collet instead of,. a chuck, which I sometimes have to do
for clearance.
Loading Image...

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Jim Wilkins
I seriously considered drilling index holes in the rim of the
backplates if I could mount them on my dividing head accurately enough.

I don't see why it would any any harder to indicate in than anything
else you put on it.  Face up, and indicate in center of rotation of
disc.  Face right (or left) and indicate in perpendicular to travel.
Indicate center with half function.  Drill, ream, rotate, Drill, ream,
rotate,Drill, ream, rotate... it wouldn't be hard.  Just tedious.
USE A STUB (screw machine length) DRILL.
You have an Indicol (or clone or home made holder) and a test indicator
right?
--
Bob La Londe
--------------------------------------
The issue isn't indicating, it's clamping a large threaded backplate (or
similar) to my hobby-sized indexing equipment. The Clausing's spindle to
table clearance limits the height of work pieces and table accessories.
I located the old sector gear for setup and then the blank for cutting
on a 1/2" centering plug before bolting them to the rotary table.  I
milled the teeth on it horizontally, at its center height.
A Clausing is very nice for making -small- parts. An RF-31 has a larger
work envelope. This is the upgraded model with a taller column. Notice
that it's drilling with a collet instead of,. a chuck, which I sometimes
have to do for clearance.
https://www.wentztech.com/metalworking/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/
Clausing_8520_Cover.png

Machinery's hand book trig tables, sine plate, tilt the head. Nah, now
its getting hard. Not impossible. Just hard. LOL. The thing is once
you get it dialed in its still just rotate drill ream, rotate drill
ream...Oh, yeah, rotate in only one direction if you are really chasing
decimal places.

I drill with a collet for the same reason all the time even on this
machine.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/south-bend-10-x-54-5-hp-single-phase-mill-with-dro/sb1028f

In fact I have made my own split collets for sizes like #7 and #21 to
slip inside the native R8 spindle collets. I have also moved the head
off to one side and hung the part out past the table, clamped to the
face of a right angle plate. This adds a couple feet to the height of a
part I can drill. I prefer not to move the head around if I don't have
to though. Hence why I use collets sometimes instead of the Tegara
integrated shank drill chuck.

I'm not a fan of Grizzly, but this machine is a beast. It was also only
$19,995 when I bought mine.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:vo0u4h$2jvqj$***@dont-email.me...

In fact I have made my own split collets for sizes like #7 and #21 to
slip inside the native R8 spindle collets. I have also moved the head
off to one side and hung the part out past the table, clamped to the
face of a right angle plate. This adds a couple feet to the height of a
part I can drill. I prefer not to move the head around if I don't have
to though. Hence why I use collets sometimes instead of the Tegara
integrated shank drill chuck.

--------------------------------
Since I modify Grade 5 and 8 bolts fairly often I made a 3/8"-16 3-part
split collet to clamp the threads straight while machining the usually less
straight shank and head. The best version has O rings in grooves at the ends
that keep it together and let a bolt or threaded rod be pushed instead of
screwed in. Less commonly modified sizes have solid threaded bushings to
allow turning a root depth pilot and tapered aligner on the ends, a great
help outdoors where a dropped screw can be lost in grass / leaves or slide
into the gutter.

[Jim Wilkins]

...I have also moved the head off to one side and hung the part out past
the table, clamped to the face of a right angle plate. This adds a couple
feet to the height of a part I can drill. I prefer not to move the head
around if I don't have to though.

The Clausing head can extend and swing like a Bridgeport, except for Nod.
Tramming it square afterwards is difficult because the clamp screws shift
the head when tightened, on mine the front and rear screws shift
differently.

I position the spindle where an end mill will barely pass behind the fixed
vise jaw.

A Clausing (Johansson) is similar to the original M head Bridgeport, which
I've seen in this museum.
https://americanprecision.org/learning-resources/machine-of-the-month-bridgeport-serial-no-1/

https://nateduxbury.wordpress.com/2018/11/02/bridgeport-m-head-milling-machine-pt-1-new-to-me-machine/

Bridgeports grew to a size and weight more suited to production while
Clausings stayed light enough for wooden upper floors and 120V power. When I
bought mine I disassembled it into pieces I could carry.

This is a currently available knee mill similar to the Clausing and M head,
with R8 instead of their 1/2" 2MT or 7B&S collets:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-8-x-30-1-1-2-hp-variable-speed-knee-mill-w-ram-head/g0695?
I had the Enco version from the 1990's in my Mitre model shop. The main
parts were well made, the minor ones were poorly fitted junk though
salvageable. If you locate holes and cuts visually to scribed lines these
more compact mills are easier on the back than a Bridgeport.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:vnrjpm$1gfoa$***@dont-email.me...

I don't know how I would QC it
though. I guess the end part would have to be the QC.

--------------------------------
One of the old manual methods Holtzapffel mentioned to create an index plate
is to step dividers around a scribed circle and keep adjusting them until
the last step equals the first. That task could consume a boy's entire
apprenticeship time.

I made a graduated dial for the crossfeed of my AA lathe, which has a
5/16-24 thread. That comes to 41-2/3 spaces per rotation. I'll never know if
I got it right.

Later I was tying up a military satellite uplink with a test pattern of 10
million bits at 2400 per second. When the manager asked when I would be done
that dividing exercise let me mentally figure the test would run for 4,166.7
seconds, or 1 hour, 9 minutes and 26.7 seconds (3600+540+26.7). He gave up
trying to confirm it on his calculator.

Afterwards I was assigned more challenging and interesting design tasks,
interfacing an atomic clock oscillator to an embedded computer and designing
a 16 bit data acquisition system for a Macintosh, good jobs for a technician
without an EE degree.

[Snag]

Who knows Snag.  I might actually have to start looking for a chuck soon
for that arbor I got from you.  I'll mostly run standard 5C collets, but
having a chuck may save the day at some point.

Even small ones are expensive if you get quality . I got a screamin'
good deal on that one . The piece of steel I bought for the back plate
cost me more than the chuck .