I Quit

[Bob La Londe]

I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply. The one that killed its own motor
in a year. The one others have reported catching on fire. The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor. (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.) The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other. The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley. Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop. Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time. Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.

Mostly I can get by for now. In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day. Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool. This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch. It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down. Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.

I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup. They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5. Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer. Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut. No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy. I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift. I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines. Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort. Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway. It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow. When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.

I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR. IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one. Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.

I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors. Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors. Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains. If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s. I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt. FYI: I do have three belt grinders already.
a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts. The third one is on a shelf...

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe
I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply.  The one that killed its own motor
in a year.  The one others have reported catching on fire.  The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor.  (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.)  The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other.  The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley.  Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop.  Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time.  Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.
Mostly I can get by for now.  In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day.  Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool.  This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch.  It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down.  Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.
I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup.  They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5.    Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer.  Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut.  No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy.  I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift.  I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines.  Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort.  Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway.  It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow.  When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.
I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR.  IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one.  Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.
I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors.  Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors.  Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains.  If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s.  I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt.  FYI:  I do have three belt grinders already.
 a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts.  The third one is on a shelf...

More power ! Hurrr hurr hurrr . That bigger motor is going to run
cooler and probably use less power than the 5 . I've got a 7.5 Hp OHV
motor here to replace the 5 Hp side valve on my tiller when it finishes
dying . I thought it had seized but it started right up the next day .

[Clare Snyder]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply.  The one that killed its own motor
in a year.  The one others have reported catching on fire.  The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor.  (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.)  The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other.  The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley.  Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop.  Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time.  Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.
Mostly I can get by for now.  In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day.  Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool.  This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch.  It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down.  Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.
I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup.  They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5.    Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer.  Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut.  No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy.  I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift.  I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines.  Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort.  Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway.  It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow.  When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.
I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR.  IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one.  Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.
I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors.  Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors.  Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains.  If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s.  I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt.  FYI:  I do have three belt grinders already.
 a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts.  The third one is on a shelf...

More power ! Hurrr hurr hurrr . That bigger motor is going to run
cooler and probably use less power than the 5 . I've got a 7.5 Hp OHV
motor here to replace the 5 Hp side valve on my tiller when it finishes
dying . I thought it had seized but it started right up the next day .

Bet if you check the current draw on that "5 HP compressor motor" it
is in reality a 3 or 3.5 HP motor.

I've got a 9HP "Chonda" engine sitting in the shed with no plans at
the moment but it's up here in Ontario. (also a 9HP verical shaft side
valve electric start Briggs if anybody up here needs one)

[Snag]

Post by Clare Snyder

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe
I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply.  The one that killed its own motor
in a year.  The one others have reported catching on fire.  The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor.  (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.)  The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other.  The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley.  Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop.  Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time.  Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.
Mostly I can get by for now.  In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day.  Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool.  This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch.  It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down.  Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.
I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup.  They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5.    Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer.  Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut.  No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy.  I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift.  I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines.  Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort.  Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway.  It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow.  When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.
I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR.  IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one.  Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.
I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors.  Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors.  Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains.  If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s.  I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt.  FYI:  I do have three belt grinders already.
 a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts.  The third one is on a shelf...

More power ! Hurrr hurr hurrr . That bigger motor is going to run
cooler and probably use less power than the 5 . I've got a 7.5 Hp OHV
motor here to replace the 5 Hp side valve on my tiller when it finishes
dying . I thought it had seized but it started right up the next day .

Bet if you check the current draw on that "5 HP compressor motor" it
is in reality a 3 or 3.5 HP motor.

Were you referring to Bob's 5hp compressor motor ? I'd check mine but
the data plate is on the back side and the unit is in a pretty tight spot .

Post by Clare Snyder
I've got a 9HP "Chonda" engine sitting in the shed with no plans at
the moment but it's up here in Ontario. (also a 9HP verical shaft side
valve electric start Briggs if anybody up here needs one)

I've just got the one for the tiller , there's another out in my pil o'
stuff on a busted tiller that was said to run when the guy gave it to be
. Oh , and an old B&S probably 3 hp side valve down i Memphis . Doubt
that one will even turn over , the kids* "needed room in the shed" so
you know where the motor landed . At least it was still right side up
last time I looked .
*Oldest boy and his family live in our Memphis property .

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v66tt7$2so7t$***@dont-email.me...

I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply. The one that killed its own motor
in a year. The one others have reported catching on fire. The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor. (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.) The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other. The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley. Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop. Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time. Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.

Mostly I can get by for now. In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day. Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool. This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch. It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down. Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.

I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup. They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5. Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer. Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut. No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy. I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift. I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines. Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort. Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway. It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow. When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.

I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR. IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one. Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.

I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors. Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors. Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains. If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s. I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt. FYI: I do have three belt grinders already.
a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts. The third one is on a shelf...
Bob La Londe

-------------------------------------
Aircompressorsdirect gives 611 Lbs for a 7.5HP IR.

Just swap the motors??

Or remove the motor and compressor head from the tank, which also makes
transport safer and easier.

I have plenty of portable ways to move heavy stuff but none are quick and
simple. They were cheap before prices more than doubled. A truck bed crane
works well if you can mount its base, the Ranger has conveniently located
bed bolts with their heads up. I bought the low one without a winch,
regretted it, and and modified it like this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-capacity-pickup-truck-bed-crane-with-hand-winch-61522.html?
The practical limit for it is around 700 Lbs because with the boom straight
back the Ranger's rear suspension compresses and the load becomes difficult
and risky to swing uphill into the bed, and then hold in place with one hand
while lowering it with the other.

Another way which I used to load and transport a garden tractor is to pull
it up ramps with a chain hoist hooked to the front crossbar of a ladder
rack. I tested my DIY diagonally braced ladder rack to a pull from the rear
of 750 Lbs per side.

An A frame of 2" pipe, conduit or fence posts with its lower pivots mounted
to the trailer sides should do it. I bolted a pair of rope cleats to a leg
and use two block/tackles to swing the A, since I can slip one rope while
pulling on the other, and control the sudden weight shift at top center
better than with two separate electric or manual winches.

I considered doing that when Snag and I were discussing logging, but the
logs to be dragged out of the undergrowth and boulders were always in the
woods to the side of the trailer, not behind it where the tractor would
anchor the winch.

Yesterday I proof tested my upgraded overhead gantry to 3500 Lbs and lifted
and moved a log weighing 4500 Lbs, which I'll have to narrow and lighten by
slabbing with a chainsaw before lifting it onto the sawmill. Today I'm
repairing the damage to the tripod baseplates from that lift.

At Segway I ordered this Vestil lift from Northern Tool so I wouldn't suffer
the heavy lifting accident that created the job opening I filled.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/vestil-llw-202058-fw-mobile-steel-lite-load-winch-lifter-with-20-square-platform-and-rolling-handle-500-lb-capacity/736LLW20205.html?
Other than its loud winch ratchet I used and liked it a lot and bought a
similar one at auction for home, where it lifts motorized lawn and garden
equipment to convenient height for service. If you happen to be testing
Segways it holds the chassis at workbench height, with the platform narrowed
to fit between the wheels and let them spin. Tilting it back allows it to
turn in a narrow aisle. I made stainless casters for mine, which is stored
outside.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply.  The one that killed its own motor
in a year.  The one others have reported catching on fire.  The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor.  (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.)  The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other.  The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley.  Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop.  Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time.  Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.
Mostly I can get by for now.  In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day.  Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool.  This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch.  It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down.  Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.
I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup.  They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5.    Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer.  Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut.  No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy.  I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift.  I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines.  Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort.  Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway.  It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow.  When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.
I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR.  IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one.  Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.
I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors.  Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors.  Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains.  If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s.  I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt.  FYI:  I do have three belt grinders already.
 a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts.  The third one is on a shelf...
Bob La Londe
-------------------------------------
Aircompressorsdirect gives 611 Lbs for a 7.5HP IR.
Just swap the motors??

I considered that, but I want both compressors 100% or what's the point
of having a backup.

I can haul heavy stuff. Its just time consuming, plus the 2 hours (+/-)
of road time. Also, its going to take time to move one compressor in
and the other out. I am considering an "outdoor" compressor closet, and
plumb in both compressors together. Just have valves to shut one off
from the distribution lines and only turn on one or the other.

That might actually be faster than a swap, and down time would be much
less too.

Might see about some sort of transfer switch so I can't accidentally
turn them both on at once.

It would be nice to get the compressor noise out of the back shop.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v67bh1$2v2ot$***@dont-email.me...

I considered that, but I want both compressors 100% or what's the point
of having a backup.

I can haul heavy stuff. Its just time consuming, plus the 2 hours (+/-)
of road time. Also, its going to take time to move one compressor in
and the other out. I am considering an "outdoor" compressor closet, and
plumb in both compressors together. Just have valves to shut one off
from the distribution lines and only turn on one or the other.

That might actually be faster than a swap, and down time would be much
less too.

Might see about some sort of transfer switch so I can't accidentally
turn them both on at once.

It would be nice to get the compressor noise out of the back shop.

Bob La Londe
-------------------------------------

Check valves in the lines and a double throw power switch (3 ph fwd/rev)
would give you those features automatically, and you could omit the valves.

Can someone explain gladhands to me? I'm wondering if they would be better
than the garden hose couplers I use to flexibly connect and reconfigure my
120 PSI max air system, in which the air may flow in either direction. A Net
search suggests they can be dangerous to handle because they don't close
automatically when disconnected.

Though not a perfect fit or pressure seal, a 3/4" PVC pipe plug will keep
dirt and bugs out of a disconnected female hose end.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I considered that, but I want both compressors 100% or what's the point
of having a backup.
I can haul heavy stuff.  Its just time consuming, plus the 2 hours (+/-)
of road time.  Also, its going to take time to move one compressor in
and the other out.  I am considering an "outdoor" compressor closet, and
plumb in both compressors together.  Just have valves to shut one off
from the distribution lines and only turn on one or the other.
That might actually be faster than a swap, and down time would be much
less too.
Might see about some sort of transfer switch so I can't accidentally
turn them both on at once.
It would be nice to get the compressor noise out of the back shop.
Bob La Londe
-------------------------------------
Check valves in the lines and a double throw power switch (3 ph fwd/rev)
would give you those features automatically, and you could omit the valves.
Can someone explain gladhands to me? I'm wondering if they would be
better than the garden hose couplers I use to flexibly connect and
reconfigure my 120 PSI max air system, in which the air may flow in
either direction. A Net search suggests they can be dangerous to handle
because they don't close automatically when disconnected.
Though not a perfect fit or pressure seal, a 3/4" PVC pipe plug will
keep dirt and bugs out of a disconnected female hose end.

If I could get all the tiny little losses eliminated I'd be tempted to
use both tanks for air storage, and just periodically switch which
compressor fills them. Then even if a compressor failed it would carry
the air seals for hours.

I also considered some sort of auto backup. The easy way would be to
set the backup compressor to switch on at a lower pressure, but there
are a number of small issues that could cause both compressors to run at
the same time. That's power I do not always have. I never intended to
have a working machine shop. This was just supposed to be a warehouse
for my contracting business. I only have a 100 amp sub panel feeding
everything. I know. I know. Upgrade the sub panel. The house only
has a 200 amp main, and my wife wants to run electric demand heaters.
I'll have to upgrade the house main first.

[Snag]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I considered that, but I want both compressors 100% or what's the point
of having a backup.
I can haul heavy stuff.  Its just time consuming, plus the 2 hours (+/-)
of road time.  Also, its going to take time to move one compressor in
and the other out.  I am considering an "outdoor" compressor closet, and
plumb in both compressors together.  Just have valves to shut one off
from the distribution lines and only turn on one or the other.
That might actually be faster than a swap, and down time would be much
less too.
Might see about some sort of transfer switch so I can't accidentally
turn them both on at once.
It would be nice to get the compressor noise out of the back shop.
Bob La Londe
-------------------------------------
Check valves in the lines and a double throw power switch (3 ph
fwd/rev) would give you those features automatically, and you could
omit the valves.
Can someone explain gladhands to me? I'm wondering if they would be
better than the garden hose couplers I use to flexibly connect and
reconfigure my 120 PSI max air system, in which the air may flow in
either direction. A Net search suggests they can be dangerous to
handle because they don't close automatically when disconnected.
Though not a perfect fit or pressure seal, a 3/4" PVC pipe plug will
keep dirt and bugs out of a disconnected female hose end.

If I could get all the tiny little losses eliminated I'd be tempted to
use both tanks for air storage, and just periodically switch which
compressor fills them. Then even if a compressor failed it would carry
the air seals for hours.
I also considered some sort of auto backup.  The easy way would be to
set the backup compressor to switch on at a lower pressure, but there
are a number of small issues that could cause both compressors to run at
the same time.  That's power I do not always have.  I never intended to
have a working machine shop.  This was just supposed to be a warehouse
for my contracting business.  I only have a 100 amp sub panel feeding
everything.  I know.  I know.  Upgrade the sub panel.  The house only
has a 200 amp main, and my wife wants to run electric demand heaters.
I'll have to upgrade the house main first.

Can you set up a relay lockout that whichever compressor is running
will cut power to the other ? An "or" gate type setup .

[Jim Wilkins]

"Snag" wrote in message news:v69p2c$3erk6$***@dont-email.me...

Can you set up a relay lockout that whichever compressor is running
will cut power to the other ? An "or" gate type setup .

[Snag]

Post by Jim Wilkins

  Can you set up a relay lockout that whichever compressor is running
will cut power to the other ? An "or" gate type setup .

If you search for relay control logic circuits, that is called
"Exclusive-OR", XOR.

My understanding of logic circuits is rudimentary at best . Kinda
reminds me of algebra . It made my head hurt too .

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Snag
Can you set up a relay lockout that whichever compressor is running
will cut power to the other ? An "or" gate type setup .

If you search for relay control logic circuits, that is called
"Exclusive-OR", XOR.

My understanding of logic circuits is rudimentary at best . Kinda
reminds me of algebra . It made my head hurt too .
Snag

-------------------------

That's fine, I posted because Net searching is like magic, you have to use
the correct words.

RESURGITE! (Arise!)

[Jim Wilkins]

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:v6a5iu$3gpk6$***@dont-email.me...

Here are some of the terms and concepts of relay control logic. Hopefully I
didn't confuse anything, I'm nearly as old enough to be President so writing
this was a memory test.

Latching Relays have an internal magnet that retains the energized position
until a pulse of opposite DC polarity overrides the magnet and returns the
relay to de-energized. Thus they remember their On or Off state through a
power loss and could select which of two compressors to use. Non-latching
relays in pairs can also remember their state as long as they remain
powered.

Relay "Form"
https://forum.digikey.com/t/understanding-form-a-form-b-form-c-contact-configuration/811

The equivalent naming for switches is SPST, SPDT, 3PDT plus ON/OFF, ON/ON,
ON/NONE/ON for single or double throw and center off. Your simplest manual
control would be 3PDT center off, for instance a fwd/off/rev drum switch,
rewired to feed power from the original motor contacts to either compressor.

3 wire control
https://eepower.com/technical-articles/understanding-three-wire-control/#
It prevents machines from starting automatically all at once after a power
outage, if that would be dangerous or trip the breaker.

Controls commonly operate from a 24VAC "control transformer", check the coil
voltage as well as contact rating when buying surplus.

Ladder logic.
https://control.com/textbook/relay-control-systems/relay-circuits/
CR = Control Relay, contact rating of 10A or less, vs a CONtactor with
higher rating for motors.
Only the labels indicate the relation between coil and contacts, dotted
lines would become too confusing in a large schematic. Being able to
decipher and understand a complex drawing was job security.
Confusingly, solid state diodes were once called CR for Crystal Rectifier,
to distinguish them from 2 element vacuum tubes.

All wires are labeled at both ends with Brady number markers, otherwise
hopeless confusion is inevitable. Numbering instead of color coding saves on
wire cost. The standard for General Motors equipment was 16 AWG or larger,
too strong for ham-handed or disgruntled union workers to "accidentally"
break.
The incoming power line is L1, L2, L3 with numerical prefixes added when
they pass through a breaker, fuse etc, so 1L1, 2L1, 3L1.

The wire is stranded MTW, Machine Tool Wire, with pull-tested crimp lugs on
the ends. Ring terminals are safer, forks more convenient. Stranded wire
resists vibration better than solid. To run wires onto a hinged control box
door, the bundle runs vertically along the hinge side to minimize flexing.

Relays can be lined up in a tight row on DIN rail with space between rows
for the wire harness. The red button operates the relay manually for
testing. A separate back panel spaced out from the back of the enclosure
simplifies drilling and bolting. Greenlee sells a 1-7/32" punch for standard
sized panel controls and indicators, should you stumble onto a surplus batch
of them.

Current Transformer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_transformer
They detect the AC current in a wire through its insulation, without any
physical connection to its voltage, the same as a clamp-on ammeter but
without batteries to replace. I have them with LED indicators to set the
thermostats on two electric baseboard heaters I use for automatic backup to
wood heat.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cr-magnetics-inc./CR2550-R/1045159?
This PZEM-061 is on my 240V air compressor to show the run current and total
power consumption, or for any other 240V device I'm testing.
https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Multimeter-PZEM-061-Voltmeter-Transformer/dp/B079JNY5VD/

The company where I designed relay controls closed and I moved on before PLC
controllers came out.

[Clare Snyder]

Post by Snag

Post by Jim Wilkins

  Can you set up a relay lockout that whichever compressor is running
will cut power to the other ? An "or" gate type setup .

If you search for relay control logic circuits, that is called
"Exclusive-OR", XOR.

My understanding of logic circuits is rudimentary at best . Kinda
reminds me of algebra . It made my head hurt too .

With a pilotted contactor connect the NC contacts of the pilot on
compressor A in seried with the contactor coil on compressor B and
vise versa. If "A" is on no power to the coil of "B" - if "B" is on no
power to the coil of "A"

[Clare Snyder]

Post by Snag

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
I considered that, but I want both compressors 100% or what's the point
of having a backup.
I can haul heavy stuff.  Its just time consuming, plus the 2 hours (+/-)
of road time.  Also, its going to take time to move one compressor in
and the other out.  I am considering an "outdoor" compressor closet, and
plumb in both compressors together.  Just have valves to shut one off
from the distribution lines and only turn on one or the other.
That might actually be faster than a swap, and down time would be much
less too.
Might see about some sort of transfer switch so I can't accidentally
turn them both on at once.
It would be nice to get the compressor noise out of the back shop.
Bob La Londe
-------------------------------------
Check valves in the lines and a double throw power switch (3 ph
fwd/rev) would give you those features automatically, and you could
omit the valves.
Can someone explain gladhands to me? I'm wondering if they would be
better than the garden hose couplers I use to flexibly connect and
reconfigure my 120 PSI max air system, in which the air may flow in
either direction. A Net search suggests they can be dangerous to
handle because they don't close automatically when disconnected.
Though not a perfect fit or pressure seal, a 3/4" PVC pipe plug will
keep dirt and bugs out of a disconnected female hose end.

If I could get all the tiny little losses eliminated I'd be tempted to
use both tanks for air storage, and just periodically switch which
compressor fills them. Then even if a compressor failed it would carry
the air seals for hours.
I also considered some sort of auto backup.  The easy way would be to
set the backup compressor to switch on at a lower pressure, but there
are a number of small issues that could cause both compressors to run at
the same time.  That's power I do not always have.  I never intended to
have a working machine shop.  This was just supposed to be a warehouse
for my contracting business.  I only have a 100 amp sub panel feeding
everything.  I know.  I know.  Upgrade the sub panel.  The house only
has a 200 amp main, and my wife wants to run electric demand heaters.
I'll have to upgrade the house main first.

Can you set up a relay lockout that whichever compressor is running
will cut power to the other ? An "or" gate type setup .

Just a pilotted (monitored) relay with the pilot on one in series
with the coil of the other

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v69l0s$3e65q$***@dont-email.me...

If I could get all the tiny little losses eliminated I'd be tempted to
use both tanks for air storage, and just periodically switch which
compressor fills them. Then even if a compressor failed it would carry
the air seals for hours.

I also considered some sort of auto backup. The easy way would be to
set the backup compressor to switch on at a lower pressure, but there
are a number of small issues that could cause both compressors to run at
the same time. That's power I do not always have. I never intended to
have a working machine shop. This was just supposed to be a warehouse
for my contracting business. I only have a 100 amp sub panel feeding
everything. I know. I know. Upgrade the sub panel. The house only
has a 200 amp main, and my wife wants to run electric demand heaters.
I'll have to upgrade the house main first.
Bob La Londe

-----------------------------------

I have one of these on my refrigerator as part of a plan to add load sensing
to a true sine UPS with high idle current draw. It powers itself from the
current sense coil, whose output lights the red LED and turns on the output
MOSFET.
https://www.amazon.com/Current-Adjustable-Sensing-Flameproof-Normally/dp/B0CX89X32D

It or a higher rated one could control a contactor that disconnects the
backup compressor when the main one's motor is drawing current, even if the
belt is broken.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v69l0s$3e65q$***@dont-email.me...

If I could get all the tiny little losses eliminated I'd be tempted to
use both tanks for air storage, and just periodically switch which
compressor fills them. Then even if a compressor failed it would carry
the air seals for hours.

I also considered some sort of auto backup. The easy way would be to
set the backup compressor to switch on at a lower pressure, but there
are a number of small issues that could cause both compressors to run at
the same time. That's power I do not always have. ...
Bob La Londe

----------------------------
The circuit in a Quick Recovery electric water heater does almost what you
want. The upper thermostat is double throw, when cold it selects the upper
element until the top part of the tank reaches the set temperature, then
switches power to the lower element and its on/off thermostat to heat the
whole tank. For two air compressors you would need a double throw pressure
switch for the lower setting.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply.  The one that killed its own motor
in a year.  The one others have reported catching on fire.  The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor.  (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.)  The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other.  The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley.  Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop.  Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time.  Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.
Mostly I can get by for now.  In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day.  Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool.  This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch.  It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down.  Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.
I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup.  They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5.    Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer.  Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut.  No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy.  I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift.  I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines.  Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort.  Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway.  It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow.  When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.
I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR.  IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one.  Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.
I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors.  Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors.  Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains.  If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s.  I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt.  FYI:  I do have three belt grinders already.
 a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts.  The third one is on a shelf...

Well... I thought my new motor had already been shipped, but they JUST
printed the shipping label. It won't actually ship until this week.

I only thought to look because I needed to order some stuff from
McMaster-Carr, and found I had not completed the order with the new
pulley hub for the new motor... which will now ship sometime this week.

[Jim Wilkins]

I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors. Now I have not one, but two
unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors. ...

-------------------------

Single phase. I've been looking for a reasonably priced 3 phase double throw
contactor rated for over 40A. Maybe two solid state relays (SSR) operated by
a small double throw relay would be better for your XOR air compressor
configuration. A DPDT center off switch could select which compressor runs
when the pressure is low, or shut both off. The water heater circuit won't
automatically revert to the high pressure compressor if the low pressure one
fails, otherwise it should provide backup and enable only one at a time as
you asked.

The simplest version has the control relay coil in parallel with the LP
compressor motor and its NC contacts operating a single throw contactor or
SSR to the HP compressor. This retains the single throw pressure switches
and uses the relay for the logical inversion. Swapping main and backup
compressors requires rewiring them, unless you have a DPDT switch rated for
the motor current. I don't know your exact needs, priorities or intentions
so I've given multiple possibilities.

I used this to power the time delay relay and SSR on my 120V/240V spot
welder timer.
https://www.amazon.com/NOYITO-Precision-100V-264V-Indicator-Step-Down/dp/B0B7J8DT2G/ref=sr_1_10?

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I'm sure you are all tired of the saga of the built to "a" spec Ingersol
Rand compressor from Craptor Supply.  The one that killed its own motor
in a year.  The one others have reported catching on fire.  The one I've
concluded only worked as long as it did because the thermal protector
had to be defective or disabled in the original motor.  (Which is
probably why some caught on fire.)  The one that tripped the thermal
constantly on one replacement motor, and the breaker and/or thermal on
the other.  The one I've been keeping running with an under sized motor
pulley.  Never mind the debacle with the after market warranty company,
or the repair shop who reported the repair complete without ever
visiting my shop.  Even with a much smaller pulley it still trips the
thermal protector from time to time.  Mostly because I think it has to
run longer when it cycles on with the smaller pulley, and when I have
several machines running, all of which use air for various things, it
has to cycle on more often.
Mostly I can get by for now.  In the last few months I've only had the
thermal trip on me 4-5 times and I run the shop every day.  Still
sometimes I run complex operations which can be several hundred lines of
code on a single tool.  This gives me the opportunity to run an errand
or go in the house for lunch.  It would cost me more than the cost of a
compressor if an ISO20 quick change spindle air seal fails and sucks
coolant up inside the head as it cools down.  Okay the odds of that are
slim, but it keeps me up at night anyway.
I had decided to bring my dad's compressor to my shop and keep the IR as
just a backup.  They are functionally similar except the IR has a 5HP
motor and the one at my dad's shop has a 7.5.    Well, that is still the
plan, but those compressors are heavy and I don't have anything out at
my dad's shop (60 miles away) to practically lift his compressor to load
it into my truck or even onto my low trailer.  Oh, I am sure there is a
chain fall out there, and there is an old a-frame laying out back, but
his shop is a quonset hut.  No beams. The a-frame will eventually get
moved to my shop, but its freaking heavy.  I don't even think I can
stand it up without the help of a lift.  I know I used it in my youth to
pull more than a couple V-8 engines.  Scooting it on concrete when its
on its pads takes a little effort unloaded, and with a big block 360
hanging from it a bit more effort.  Standing it up in the dirt and
dragging it around... Anyway.  It will get done eventually, but not
today or tomorrow.  When I do I'll probably trailer my tractor out there
to do the job with its loader bucket.
I just ordered a 7.5 HP compressor duty motor for the IR.  IR actually
sells a very similar compressor with a 7.5 HP motor on it at about 3.5
times the price of this one.  Then, since I already know all the parts,
I ordered a new hub for the original pulley to fit the 1-1/8 shaft on
the new motor.
I quit screwing around with those 5HP motors.  Now I have not one, but
two unused single phase 230V "5HP" spare motors.  Maybe I'll make a
couple big belt grinders for erasing the bumpy spots on mountains.  If I
make a belt grinder or three, which is part of my planned projects, I
plan to use 3 phase motors for speed control, so not really with those
5s.  I guess I could build a sheave stack, but turning a knob is so much
easier than moving a belt.  FYI:  I do have three belt grinders already.
 a 1x30 and a 1x42 that I use almost everyday for conditioning and
de-burring parts.  The third one is on a shelf...

I got the new 7.5HP motor installed on the IR compressor today. The
pulley hub for the larger motor shaft and the motor both arrived
yesterday. Wow! Yeah I think it should have always had a 7.5HP motor
on it. After installation I vented the tank until the motor kicked on,
and it filled fast. Faster than the original motor with the same
pulley. The compressor must have been dragging down the 5HP motors a
little bit all along. I'm still bring the compressor from my dad's shop
and setting the two of them up together so I can quickly swap
compressors, but this is so much better I no longer feel the urge to
hurry.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v6n6c2$2469n$***@dont-email.me...

I got the new 7.5HP motor installed on the IR compressor today. The
pulley hub for the larger motor shaft and the motor both arrived
yesterday. Wow! Yeah I think it should have always had a 7.5HP motor
on it. After installation I vented the tank until the motor kicked on,
and it filled fast. Faster than the original motor with the same
pulley. The compressor must have been dragging down the 5HP motors a
little bit all along. I'm still bring the compressor from my dad's shop
and setting the two of them up together so I can quickly swap
compressors, but this is so much better I no longer feel the urge to
hurry.
Bob La Londe

----------------------------------
Congrats, another problem successfully solved.

My 80 gallon compressor is in a corner of my crowded shop and needs to be
muscled out to work on it. A wider wooden base that lets it slide rather
than tip helps a lot. I don't have a pallet jack or room to use one, but if
I did a small pallet might be a good base for it.

[Bob La Londe]

I got the new 7.5HP motor installed on the IR compressor today.  The
pulley hub for the larger motor shaft and the motor both arrived
yesterday.  Wow!  Yeah I think it should have always had a 7.5HP motor
on it.  After installation I vented the tank until the motor kicked on,
and it filled fast.  Faster than the original motor with the same
pulley.  The compressor must have been dragging down the 5HP motors a
little bit all along.  I'm still bring the compressor from my dad's shop
and setting the two of them up together so I can quickly swap
compressors, but this is so much better I no longer feel the urge to
hurry.
Bob La Londe
----------------------------------
Congrats, another problem successfully solved.
My 80 gallon compressor is in a corner of my crowded shop and needs to
be muscled out to work on it. A wider wooden base that lets it slide
rather than tip helps a lot. I don't have a pallet jack or room to use
one, but if I did a small pallet might be a good base for it.

The sad part is if they had used a 7.5HP motor to begin with and priced
it accordingly it would have been an actual good deal, instead of a fake
good deal.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v6pdgc$2k09f$***@dont-email.me...

The sad part is if they had used a 7.5HP motor to begin with and priced
it accordingly it would have been an actual good deal, instead of a fake
good deal.
Bob La Londe

--------------------------------

Be happy you weren't cursed to spend your career in Marketing.

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
The sad part is if they had used a 7.5HP motor to begin with and priced
it accordingly it would have been an actual good deal, instead of a fake
good deal.
Bob La Londe
--------------------------------
Be happy you weren't cursed to spend your career in Marketing.

I actually took a class in marketing in college. I concluded marketing
was just a bunch of made up buzzwords and cockamamie "theories" to sell
advertising. Yeah, I also took a class on advertising. It had some
real buzz words and theories to sell advertising. Very little was about
the effectiveness of advertising.

When business is good you need to advertise.
When business is bad you need to advertise.
When you discover advertising and marketing firms just want your money
and if they bleed you to bankruptcy they just laugh you need to advertise.

When you discover that the advertising firms wrote the text books you
should take out a huge debilitating loan to attend more classes.

You should tell customers who need low turn rate or low margin items to
fuck off and buy it somewhere else. Oh, wait. That was basic survey of
business where they introduced that concept. Its no wonder brick and
mortar stores selling substantial products have been dropping like flies
for the last 30-40 years. In the same classes they will tell you small
businesses can compete by providing better service... Wait? What?

I need some Dot 3 brake fluid.
Year, make and model please.

You should buy local.
Okay I need this today.
We can get that for you.

Sorry about the rant, but "We can get it for you," is the death knell of
retail. Okay... I'm done now.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v6pgcc$2kg7u$***@dont-email.me...

I need some Dot 3 brake fluid.
Year, make and model please.

--------------------

"1927 Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A"

(suffer, sucker)

[Bob La Londe]

Post by Bob La Londe
I need some Dot 3 brake fluid.
Year, make and model please.
--------------------
"1927 Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A"
(suffer, sucker)

Didn't that take ISO32 hydraulic oil?

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Bob La Londe
I need some Dot 3 brake fluid.
Year, make and model please.
--------------------
"1927 Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A"
(suffer, sucker)

Didn't that take ISO32 hydraulic oil?
Bob La Londe

--------------------------------

Maybe, like Bugatti and Rickenbacker they were pioneers of advanced tech
including 4 wheel brakes. The point is when the clerk asks for an
unnecessary name give one they can't spell.

[Clare Snyder]

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
The sad part is if they had used a 7.5HP motor to begin with and priced
it accordingly it would have been an actual good deal, instead of a fake
good deal.
Bob La Londe
--------------------------------
Be happy you weren't cursed to spend your career in Marketing.

I actually took a class in marketing in college. I concluded marketing
was just a bunch of made up buzzwords and cockamamie "theories" to sell
advertising. Yeah, I also took a class on advertising. It had some
real buzz words and theories to sell advertising. Very little was about
the effectiveness of advertising.
When business is good you need to advertise.
When business is bad you need to advertise.
When you discover advertising and marketing firms just want your money
and if they bleed you to bankruptcy they just laugh you need to advertise.
When you discover that the advertising firms wrote the text books you
should take out a huge debilitating loan to attend more classes.
You should tell customers who need low turn rate or low margin items to
fuck off and buy it somewhere else. Oh, wait. That was basic survey of
business where they introduced that concept. Its no wonder brick and
mortar stores selling substantial products have been dropping like flies
for the last 30-40 years. In the same classes they will tell you small
businesses can compete by providing better service... Wait? What?
I need some Dot 3 brake fluid.
Year, make and model please.
You should buy local.
Okay I need this today.
We can get that for you.
Sorry about the rant, but "We can get it for you," is the death knell of
retail. Okay... I'm done now.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

I went to the office supply store to buy something common - can't
remember what - and they said they don't carry it in the store anymore
because they don't sell enough to make it worth while. I said "I guess
not if it's not on the shelf" and told them if I had to order it I'd
iorder it on Amazon and have it next day for 25% less than they wanted
to get it for me nexct week - - -
\
Hardware stores are getting even worse for "real hardware"

[Snag]

Post by Clare Snyder

Post by Bob La Londe

Post by Bob La Londe
The sad part is if they had used a 7.5HP motor to begin with and priced
it accordingly it would have been an actual good deal, instead of a fake
good deal.
Bob La Londe
--------------------------------
Be happy you weren't cursed to spend your career in Marketing.

I actually took a class in marketing in college. I concluded marketing
was just a bunch of made up buzzwords and cockamamie "theories" to sell
advertising. Yeah, I also took a class on advertising. It had some
real buzz words and theories to sell advertising. Very little was about
the effectiveness of advertising.
When business is good you need to advertise.
When business is bad you need to advertise.
When you discover advertising and marketing firms just want your money
and if they bleed you to bankruptcy they just laugh you need to advertise.
When you discover that the advertising firms wrote the text books you
should take out a huge debilitating loan to attend more classes.
You should tell customers who need low turn rate or low margin items to
fuck off and buy it somewhere else. Oh, wait. That was basic survey of
business where they introduced that concept. Its no wonder brick and
mortar stores selling substantial products have been dropping like flies
for the last 30-40 years. In the same classes they will tell you small
businesses can compete by providing better service... Wait? What?
I need some Dot 3 brake fluid.
Year, make and model please.
You should buy local.
Okay I need this today.
We can get that for you.
Sorry about the rant, but "We can get it for you," is the death knell of
retail. Okay... I'm done now.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

I went to the office supply store to buy something common - can't
remember what - and they said they don't carry it in the store anymore
because they don't sell enough to make it worth while. I said "I guess
not if it's not on the shelf" and told them if I had to order it I'd
iorder it on Amazon and have it next day for 25% less than they wanted
to get it for me nexct week - - -
\
Hardware stores are getting even worse for "real hardware"

We have 2 hardware stores here in a 4,000 population town , both
surprisingly well stocked . Somebody thinks there's enough trade here to
open a 3rd , Ace affiliate store . We're hoping it'll also sell lumber ,
the only lumber yard here sucks .